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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:44:40 -0600
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Teresa Garcma
Subject: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello all!
Does anybody know the name in spanish of Patchouli, Tea tree and Penny
royal?
Thanks a lot
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:40:41 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Robert e butcher
Subject: new comer!!
Hi everybody! Iam a second year keeper of the bees.
I've followed the list through a friend for about half a year,
I have gotten alot of good info from it.
I work with another fellow ,we have twelve colonies.
In January '98 I hived my first swarm at 35 degrees outside.
Just thought I'd say hello. Well GOD BLESS your BEES.
BobBees
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:41:36 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Andy Nachbaur
Subject: bee hives are clean? > propolis > FGMO and PGMO
In-Reply-To: <34DCDC8D.66C@rls.roknet.ro>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:18 AM 2/8/98 +0200, Marian Pintilie wrote:
>> How can you explain the healthy honeybees that are reared in areas of the
>> world that have NO propolis at all
>It seem to me that you too did not got my point of view. I repeat,
>In average, the interior of a lived hive is cleaner than the usual
>enviroment which touch our food . I mean regarding microorganisms and
>toxic substances.
Hi Marian & Bee Friends,
This is just not true I understand what you are saying and I believe you
are confusing the magic of our Honey with the physical environment it is
produced in. We all can digest some wild claims made about honey itself but
when it comes to making claims about the bee boxes or hives themselves as
credible evidence for the hype of honey I get all plugged up.
The inside of a bee hive and all its wooden parts are in fact because of
the nature of wood and the bees themselves are not clean. I have no idea
why you would want people to believe that they are clean but if you have
access to a black light such as used to detect the urine trails of mice in
a food storage warehouse you will never again want to eat your lunch off
the inside of a bee hive. Add moisture to the inside of a old bee hive and
at 80degrees B. you will be able to rear some very interesting things that
can in time eat the wood bee hive itself up and if you were to eat them
maybe they would not eat you but they could make you very thin.
>I was not aware that are hives without propolis, (I saw that some hives
>are well glued and near are other with almost nothing, but thin layer
>is always there) . If those bees do not use propolis (Do not have
>ingredients or do not know to produce it) are healthy because maybe
>was not yet discocered by Columb to give them flu or use spells
>to cure the evil :)
To have propolis you must first have the trees and plants that produce them
and believe it or not there are
many places that are excellent for beekeeping that do not have them so the
bees do not gather propolis, none of the hives because there is none to
gather. I have personally kept bees in both types of areas and if I were
asked I would say the bees are no healthier in the areas of over abundant
propolis then they are in the areas that have little or none at all, but I
would add that they are easier to work both in the field and in the honey
extracting room when there is little or no propolis. We do no understand
all that is to be known about how the bees use propolis but for sure how
they use it and how man would use it in the trade are not necessarily the
same.
>>and the fact that bees will gather and
>> use paint off any old Out House to use in the same way as they do propolis,
>> and many other not so nice or clean things??
>If somewhere in this world are some bees located in a garbage field
>who chosed to lick the Cola cans instead of starving doesn't mean that
>the rest of the hives of the world are filthy.
True it is not a perfect world and bees do these things and even in some
wild pristine areas of the world honey bees can be found looking for salt
in wild animal dung heaps if they lack it from other sources. In fact much
of what attracts bees during periods of food shortage are of the highest
order of rank things as far as what we would look for in our own foods,
such as fermented grain dusts, dusting sulfur, and black tar off the road
or roofs heated by the sun, a substitute for propels. Lucky for us most of
these things are rare enough that they do not make their way into the
trade, but at times some do and if not discovered because no one is looking
it is luckier for us they do no harm when consumed in small amounts. The
other side of this coin is honey made from non floral sources such as
excreted from scale insects which believe it or not can return more to the
beekeeper then the best floral honey and has a ready market in many areas
and is called Forest Honey in some markets. Some is very tasty such as Fur
Honey from the Ceder forests that has a pine nut flavor, others taste like
used motor oil such as Oak honeydew which can be as red as blood, or Sugar
Cane that can be black as the soot in it. None of these are even good bee
food but the bees do collect and store them sometimes in large amounts.
When the best honey in the US sold for 15 cents per pound I shipped a load
of Oak Honey to Cuba for 7 3/4 cents per pound including the drums. It was
used to flavor tobacco or that's what I had to say and stencil on each
drum, but I suspect it was sold as sugar cane honey to those who could
remember what it was like..
>The idea of unclean hives started, from the statement that
>FGMO in contact with the filth will be the same as PGMO.
>I this statement is true , I mean if the hive is unclean, than
>bees walking in that unclean stuff and next in combs cells, will
>make the honey unclean, so unfit for human consumption.!!!
Man has bee eating honey, bees wax, and some of the filth of the hives for
as long as this OLd Drone has been alive and except for a very few infants
below the age of two years all seems to have worked out OK for us and the
same was true for the vast majority of the infants who were fed small
amounts of honey until a few years back when a over zealous public health
bureaucrat did a snow job on the public and took the bee industry through
the courts. We ended up paying for hand outs that pedo doctors give out
with their bills warning new Mom's not to feed honey to their babies. Lucky
for us babies never have been big consumers of honey or we all would be in
a world of hurt.. Today in the USA those same unexplained crib deaths that
make it hot for beekeepers is now said to be the action of murderous
parents that don't want kids which also is a lot of horse poky...
You are the first that I have read that would make this argument about the
hive itself being clean or not as having anything at all to do with the
honey produced from that hive. Some areas of the world still have
beekeepers who keep bees in hives made of clay sealed up with mud and the
dung of animals and they consume all the honey their bees produce with no
reported problems.
>Soooo, be careful with such statements, because if will get to the ears
>of those who decide what is "eatable" and what not will let you to
>sell the honey only if :
Well so be it, take my word for it HONEY is a natural food and like most
natural food it contains some things that are not normally considered in
themselves as good. Most beekeepers take care in settling and straining
their honey to remove some of the bigger things that naturally are found in
honey. Some of these things are naturally found in honey because of the
lack of care by the beekeepers and others are in the dust of our environment.
No matter what I say others will make of it what they want, but I am not
going to say something I know is not true just because of some danger
someone may not understand. It is true I don't always express myself in a
way that all can understand but as far as the good name of our Honey goes
there have been evil forces at work for years and some can be found on the
web, one you may want to read is:
http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html
I won't post the others but will say they are just as bad in making false
and out of context statements to advance a narrow point of view of why you
should not eat your honey.
>- the honey is sterilised
>- the honey is washed with food grade soap, or
>- your bees use boots outside of comb and antiseptic socks on combs.
I can say without reservation that the honey producing industry, including
myself, has a long way to go as far as what we could do to produce a better
quality product. Lucky for us in most cases the no good bad rotten stealing
Honey Packers removes much of what we miss, in the honey packing process,
and in some cases adds a little something of his own, moisture to make up
the loss. God has been good to us to have given us Honey Packers as bad as
they are they do insulate us from the consumers, he gets the complaints
while we take the praise. In this world the honey packer and the consumer
are the one's who have the most to say what honey is all about as it must
be marketed in competition with other products that are far less expensive
and are really chemically pure if not natural.
Please take note I know that few here have had the experience of selling
bulk honey and all here may do an excellent job of selling all they produce
to their friends and neighbors, and even their town or county. And all
should be proud of what they do to produce the best most holism product in
the world, honey, but out here in the real world there are many if not most
honey producers who can not sell all their honey to their neighbors and
must sell to others who gather large quantizes of honey, clean it up and
blend it together, and market it to the bulk industrial users, or the
wholesale trade that retails it to the average consumer and they produce
the bulk of what honey is consumed in the USA a large market for domestic
and world honey.
>Jocking, or not , I can give more arguments that hive are cleaner than
>us humans.
I would think this is the right place to do that, but if you are just into
PR or promotion of honey your time would be better spent on the public
since few of us here do not believe that what we are doing is not right
without telling the consumer another story on the advantages of honey
produced in a wooden bee hive. It would be easier to say only real honey
comes in a one pound bass wood comb honey section box and at one time most
would go along with that but today it would be a hard sell.
>Can anybody convice me the opossite?
>A scientific approach will be much credible.
Well if we have to be careful of what we say, scientific or not, then I
give up and declare you the winner and wish you lots of luck convincing the
public that honey is better then other food products because it comes from
wooden bee hives, plastic bee hives, or even bee trees.
I personally think of honey as a natural sweetener that differs in taste
and composition according to the flowers in bloom when and the location and
the environment it was produced in.
ttul, the OLd Drone
... I said, but just to be a bee
(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:46:11 PST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: T & M Weatherhead
Subject: Re: - Temperature to kill AFB spores
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
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Tom Elliott asked what temperature is needed to kill AFB spores.
I am currently part of a team looking to see if we can sterilise bee boxe=
s in high temperature timber drying kilns. The lab work has shown that =
it is far easier to kill the AFB spores in a wet solution than in a dry =
condition.
Hopefully, our work will be completed by the middle of this year and I =
will be able to give you an answer.
As for the scorching, I know a beekeeper who had AFB and destroyed al the=
frames but kept the boxes, lids and bottom boards if they were in good =
condition. He scorched inside and out with a blow torch and then re-pain=
ted the boxes. He has not (scorching was done about 13 years ago) to dat=
e had any re-infection.
It was a lot of work but the beekeeper concerned was retired and had time=
to spare. The cost, in material terms, was far less than replacing with=
new equipment.
Trevor Weatherhead
AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:37:16 +0100
Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth"
Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment
Comments: To: beeman@Alaska.NET
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear Rett, Tom and all others,
because you don't get any answer about your question, I think I'll try
to give you some advice from old Europe. The desciption of methods in
the subsequent lines is given without any guarantee for its
effectiveness
against AFB or safety to the user. It is just an information n o t
an instruction.
In Germany we don't use any medicine as antibiotics for AFB. If AFB
flares up at a beeyard we have to "fight" it - but without medicine. (If
that is interesting to you I'll report about it at a later time.)
To kill AFB on infected equipment there are two traditional ways
high temperatures or caustic soda solution
The first method is used for example to sterilize hives or wax. The wood
of the hives is burned with a gas burner till it changes the colour and
looks brown (not black) and the fibres of the wood beginn to burn. If
you
want to sterilize the wax you have to heat the pure wax up to 140-1600C
(about 300 degrees in the Fahrenheit scale). The wax has to be heated
w i t h o u t any water! (It will sprinkle out and may hurt someone!)
One has to control the temperatur with a thermometer, take care of the
temperature because of the inflaming point (burning) of the wax at about
295 0C (about 563 degrees in the Fahrenheit scale). The wax can also be
sterilized under pressure with water vapore in a special autoclave
boiler.
If one uses equipment which cannot be heated to that temperature because
of melting for example then one uses caustic soda. To sterilize hives of
polystyrene foam we use caustic soda solution of 3-5 %. This solution is
rather dangerous for skin and your eyes. So one has to use gloves,
protective goggles and so on. After cleaning the equipment with the
caustic soda solution you have to wash it with pure water and let it
dry.
Sincerely
Reimund
Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria)
Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees
Insemination Station
> Rett Thorpe wrote:
> >
> > Could some sort of oven be made to bake AFB infected equipment? What
> > temp is needed to kill AFB?
>
> A very specific question was asked. I have asked this before and gotten
> the same lack of response. What temperature is required, and for how
> long, to kill AFB spores? Does anyone have this information?
> Apparently not, Rett.
> Tom
> --
> "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
>
> Tom Elliott
> Chugiak, Alaska
> U.S.A.
> beeman@alaska.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:46:09 -0000
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Elias Gonzalez San juan
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Teresa Garcma wrote:
>Does anybody know the name in spanish of Patchouli, Tea tree
and Penny royal?
_________________________________
Patchouli --> PACHULI.
Pogostemon cablin -- Lamiaceae.
Tea tree --> CAYEPUT.
Melaleuca alternifolia -- Mirtaceae.
Penny royal --> MENTA.
Mentha pulegium -- Lamiaceae.
_________________________________
Elias Gonzalez
La Palma
Canary Islands
beepress@iedatos.es
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:02:42 -0800
Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Bill Truesdell
Subject: Re: bee hives are clean? > propolis > FGMO and PGMO
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andy,
Thanks for the response. I was a little concerned because the thread was moving
away from FGMO vrs PGMO into how clean is a hive.
The main point is - it is not as clean as you would need to use FGMO. I see no
reason not to use USP grade MO.
"We only use U.S. Pharmaceutical grade MO in our hives. Why, you trust it on your
baby's skin, which is why we treat our bees the same way."
The MO I bought for making bees wax hand cream is not even USP but says,
"Laboratory tested, quality guaranteed". And on the back it gives directions for
both internal and external use, so you can drink MO that is not indicated as USP!
The key point is all this, which I am sure will be lost again, is that PGMO is as
safe to use as FGMO because once applied, FGMO and PGMO lose the standard to which
either is made. I am not advocating using the MO I bought for hand cream, but I'll
bet it also is as safe as either FGMO or PGMO.
We still need information concerning MO, no matter what kind, getting in honey. I
doubt it does, but research is needed.
Bill Truesdell
Bath, ME
Andy Nachbaur wrote: a response to Marian Pintilie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:34:36 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Brenda Wishin
Subject: Re: BestOfBee Digest for 7 Feb 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you!
>8 Message:0008 8
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: Wallpaper search
>
>From: Kathy Hough
>To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
>
>To everyone looking for bee wallpaper,There are a number of patterns
>available right now... My current favorite (and the one that i bought for
>the office area of our honey house) is by Osborne and Little and is part of
>the Nina Campbell collection--it's ~3/4" bumble type bees "flying" every
>which way over a very subtly (dotted) "honeycombed" background of an
>otherwise solid background. There were 6 or 7 different background colors
>available, some with more obvious honeycomb "dots" than others.
>
>Another bee paper is a border from Brunschwig (sp?) & Fils that has a 2-3
>foot repeating pattern of skep and flowers with bees flying overhead. It
was
>available in 4 or 5 different colors in 1992 when we bought it.
>
>Two other sources (with several papers & borders to choose from) are both
>distributed by Imperial and are in the "Be Home" book and one (or two) of
the
>Gear company books. These papers and borders have a more rustic and
country
>feel than the other two.
>
>I've found out about these wallpapers from my local paint and wallpaper
store
>who (like everyone else in our small town) is aware that we are beekeepers
>and collectors of bee stuff and brought them to our attention. Even if
your
>local wallpaper store hasn't ever thought to look for bees in wallpaper,
>there is a reference book for many wallpaper companies that lists papers by
>category (like shells, or ducks, or bees) that you might ask your local
store
>to look up for you.
>
>Don't know if any of the companies that I mentioned has a web page, but
they
>might... they're certainly large enough companies to merit the investment.
>
>Good luck to you all,
>Kathy
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>9 Message:0009 9
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: FGMO
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Beemaid
>
>I am assuming that when you say pharmaceutical grade mineral oil you are
>referring to USP or British Pharmacopoeia Standards. If this is the case,
>then the item about the only difference with FGMO is being fabricated in
>"clean" rooms is false, because in order to meet Pharmaceutical standards
it
>has to be manufactured or fabricated in "CLEAN" room conditions.
>
>As for why to use Food Grade vs Pharmaceutical Grade, if in the off chance
>that some of the mineral oil gets into the honey or wax and has a chance of
>being ingested by some one, that is the justification for using Food Grade.
>
>Just like in food processing plants where they have to use FOOD GRADE
grease
>where there is the possibility of contact with the food product.
>
>I hope this helps clarify some discussions about Food Grade vs
>Pharmaceutical grade.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Quentin Bochar BSc.
>Laboratory Technician
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>10 Message:0010 10
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Web Page Mini-Group
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Jerry J Bromenshenk
>
>A few of you are building or have pages. This topic does not seem to
appeal
>to most of the list, but some have expressed an interest. If you'd like to
>form a discussion group about web pages, interactive databases, how to make
>them, how to make them work, tricks, etc. please contact me directly. DO
NOT
>SEND YOUR RESPONSE TO BEE-L...
>
>If you have not done so, you may wish to check out our JAVA graphing honey
>bee foraging and weather data sets. We have posted 2 weeks of bee activity
>for Montana and the appropriate weather data as well as internal hive
>temperature data. You can learn a lot about what influences flight
activity,
>time lags, etc. by checking these out and/or downloading the actual
datafiles
>into spreadsheets.
>
>This is real data from 7 very real and fully functional hives.
>
>http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees
>
>Thanks
>
>Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D.
>Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy
>The University of Montana-Missoula
>Missoula, MT 59812-1002
>E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu
>Tel: 406-243-5648
>Fax: 406-243-4184
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>11 Message:0011 11
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: Bee Decline ?
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: David Green
>
> >I have read in a book on the decline of amphibians, that there has also
> >been a decline in natural bee populations. It is attributed to the
> >widespread use of pesticides in agriculture, and the decline in habitat
for
> >bees. I think the loss of natural bee populations is due mainely to the
bee
>mites. >>
>
>That's not entirely true, though mites have been a serious factor with
>honeybees. But honeybee populations were declining before mites arrived,
due
>to pesticide misuse, poor honey markets, and other factors.
>
> Bumblebee populations, especially in the south are badly depleted,
>primarily due to cotton spraying in violation of label directions. Many
>solitary bees are also affected. Pesticide misuse is a factor in many other
>areas as well.
>
> Some other factors are loss of forage (changing crops patterns, loss of
>hedgerows, increased herbicide use, and monoculture pine forests rather
than
>mixed forest), clearcut logging, development, bee paranoia (more homeowner
>spraying, more vandalism to beekeepers), and fire ants (ground nesting
>solitary bees are especially vulnerable to these preditors).
>
> To Mr. Seyfried:
>
> You are absolutely right: the decline of pollinator populations is one
of
>the most significant environmental problems, one that will greatly impact
our
>children and grandchildren, if not ourselves. It is little recognized and
I
>commend you for being alert to this situation.
>
> You can help.
>
>1. Get well educated yourself. You can look at produce at the market and
see
>effects of poor pollination (lowered quality), if you know what to look
for.
>Check out the web pages below for more info.
>
>2. Work for better enforcement of pesticide laws. Right now this is a low
>priority, and in fact our South Carolina pesticide enforcement head has
been
>lobbying EPA to gut the protection offered in pesticide label directions.
>
>3. Work for more research on honeybee mite control (only one material
today
>is registered for varroa mites, and resistance to that material is
looming),
>resistant strains of honeybees, alternative pollinators. Your congressman
may
>think pollination is unimportant. He may see the bee labs as so much pork
>barrel, so he keeps trying to cut the already limited budget for bee
research.
>
>4. Work for better beekeeper education. Call your local extension office
and
>ask them when they are offering a beginner beekeeping course. If they
don't
>have one scheduled, point out the pollination problem and ask they why they
>aren't working on it.
>
> Why do many of the land grant universities have little or no beekeeper
>courses? I don't think any university in the US has a course in pollination
>management, which is pretty basic horticulture, really. There are only a
half
>dozen schools that have any significant training. I once had a university-
>trained head of an extension fruit team look totally blank at me, when I
>showed him you could count the seeds in an apple to evaluate pollination.
It
>was a brand new idea to him.
>
>5. Encourage young people, in every opportunity you have, to consider
>beekeeping (especially for contract pollination) as a career choice. It's
a
>seller's market.....
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>12 Message:0012 12
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: old eguipment--torching?
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Nick Wallingford
>
>> I normally agree with prolific Allen Dick but if he says that scorching
>> with a propane torch to clean up old frames/boxes, etc. for any reason is
>> futile, I DON'T agree, based upon my own many years of experience in
>> apiology and discussions with other pertinent individals.
>
>I've recently been reading historical material back into the first
>part of the century related to AFB control - all the popular methods
>of McEvoy, etc, as well as a lot of 'home grown' NZ methods of the
>day.
>
>Scorching of boxes was an accepted practice at one time in NZ but is
>no longer allowed or considered effective. As we do not feed
>antibiotics to control/suppress/cure AFB, my reading of the history
>is that it became abundantly apparent that scorching did not render
>boxes safe to put on 'clean' hives.
>
>I will qualify that with one comment from an old beekeeper that
>scorching can be *very* effective, but only if you scorch both inside
>and outside of the box, and make sure the scorching meets in the
>middle...
>
>Perhaps Dr Mark Goodwin, who has done extensive research related to
>AFB infection and detection, would make some comments to the list?
>
> (\ Nick Wallingford
> {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz
> (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz
>NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>13 Message:0013 13
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: FGMO and PGMO
>
>From: Bill Truesdell
>To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
>
>The problem I have with the use of FGMO vrs PGMO (in addition to cost) is
>that it is probably inappropriate for use in the hive unless you maintain
>the same "clean" conditions required to maintain FGMO's classification as
>food grade. Just as soon as you put it on a frame, it is no longer "food
>grade" and becomes less pure than unapplied PGMO.
>
>I understand that we want to have a pure substance in the hive, but
>beekeepers put crisco, terra, formic acid, menthol, apistan, and a host of
>other things into their hives, follow directions and the honey is
considered
>pure and safe. Most of those things you would not want to eat. Bees track
in
>every kind of substance, including dirt, pesticides, and pollen. Bits and
>pieces of bees end up in cells along with dead mites and honey. With all
>this hive contamination, we are saying that we have to use FGMO because it
>is food grade. Yet all this trash comes in contact with honey and always
>has.
>
>I understand FGMO is used in machinery which will contact foods. Every
>effort is made, under those conditions, to maintain a clean environment.
>The hive does not meet those conditions, so I agree with the oil sales rep
>that we are in overkill if we use FGMO. PGMO is a very pure oil - you can
>drink it, though not recommended (along with FGMO) because of the end
result
>(there is a pun in there somewhere).
>
>I guess the best analogy is washing your hands with a strong antiseptic
soap
>or plain soap before you go out and dig up carrots in the garden. Your
hands
>are clean enough for the job with plain soap because the environment (dirt
>in garden) brings either treatment to the same level of contamination.
>I would like to know how anyone can tell the difference between FGMO and
>PGMO after it is applied. Both are exactly the same chemically. Both then
>have the same level of contamination. The hive is an unclean environment.
>I would hate to see the community find that MO does work but be locked into
>FGMO because of what I consider to be over caution (it is food grade so it
>must be the only thing we can use). I know that I am on the hard side of
>this discussion because I am arguing a lesser standard, but I think more
>practical.
>
>Bill Truesdell
>Bath, ME
>
>As an aside, two of us will be trying MO this summer, so I am not against
MO
>and I appreciate your work.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>14 Message:0014 14
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: swarm traps
>
>Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Adrian Wenner
>
>> Dr Justin Schmidt, of the USDA-ARS LAB in Tucson, Arizona both knows and
>> has made several designs of swarm traps. They are made in Oregon, of wood
>> pulp, over a form in the size of an office waste paper basket, and will
>> last 2-5 years outside. He also developed the pheromone lure.
>
> Justin Schmidt is VERY busy and may not be able to reply to mail
>inquiries. Those who want a summary of swarm traps can refer to an
>AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL article: Schmidt, J.O. 1985. Swarm traps: An
>example of research and technology transfer. (130:811-812).
>
> Another article may prove useful: Schmidt, J.O. and S.C. Thoenes. The
>efficiency of swarm traps: What percent of swarms are captured and at what
>distance from the hive? AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 130: 811-812.
>
> I have used these swarm hives for several years. They are quite
>effective, but cavities in which colonies have existed earlier prove
>somewhat more attractive to swarms, as reported earlier at an AMERICAN BEE
>RESEARCH CONFERENCE.
>
>Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office)
>Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX)
>Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX)
>Santa Barbara, CA 93106
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>15 Message:0015 15
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: fgmo & pgmo
>
>From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
>To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
>
>Although the question has not been addressed to me, I thought that perhaps
I
>should answer being that I am the "father of the creature."
>
>Yes, I am very much aware of the existence of PGMO. Those who read my
files
>will notice tht I describe the reason for selecting FGMO with abundace of
>detail. For those of you who may have missed it, please let me state it
>again. FGMO is approved by the federal government (hence also state
>governments) in the USA for use in food handling operations.
>
>While PGMO might be slightly priced below the cost of FGMO, PGMO does not
>have approval from the government as a substance that can be applied to the
>"tools" for food handling. Since honey is food, I think that the reason
>should be clear to everyone especially with the possibility of honey being
>subject to regulatory procedures in the near future. With a lifetime
>experience in food hygiene, I would never advocate the use of a substance
>that does not meet hygienic standards. Perhaps when the use of mineral oil
>as a bee miticide (as I have not doubt that it will become!), beekeepers
and
>honey packers will lobby the government for approval of PGMO as an accepted
>substance that can be utilized in honey handling operations.
>
>I would also like to emphasize for those of you who may have missed my
post.
>A few days back I posted to Bee-L the names of two major distributors of
>mineral oil in the United States including their telephone numbers; (one of
>them is a free call: 1-800-245-3952).
>
>Good luck to all of you in the coming beekeeping season.
>
>Best regards.
>Dr. Rodriguez
>Virginia Beach, VA
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>16 Message:0016 16
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Propolis
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Andy Nachbaur
>
>...I am not sure about anything but do know that propolis is a substance
that
>is consumed in the beehive as hives moved out of areas with heavy propolis
>to the point the frames can not be moved without damage in one season will
>have none when moved to areas that have no trees or plants that produce the
>stickey stuff. Here they will substitute wax for propiolis and will rob it
>off foundation or just about anything else in the summer.
>
>ttul, the OLd Drone
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>17 Message:0017 17
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: RE: irradiation of hives
>
>Reply-to: rrudd@tinet.ie
>From: rrudd
>
>The problem with gamma ray irradiation of hives to sterilize them from AFB
is
>that although the process kills off the disease, the dried scales are left
in
>the cells, with the result that the queen will not lay in them and thus the
>frame will still have the *pepper pot* appearance characteristic of AFB.
>
>The problem arises when you next inspect for AFB, and you cannot determine
>whether the colony is re- infected or not. Also there aren't too many
>stations irradiating for the general public, and you need a large number of
>hives to be treated at the one time, as, I understand, there is a minimum
>size of container which the processors will accept.
>---
>FAQ? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can
>search for answers to most common questions by visiting
>http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm
>or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say
>Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S)
>('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question)
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>18 Message:0018 18
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Stan Sandler
>
>>You say "have been using pollen traps for 10 years...". Interesting, as I
>>see you are in the Northeast. With our relatively high humidity, do you
dry
>>the pollen? If you do, how do you do it? If you don't, do you have
trouble
>>with mold? Do you sell the pollen, or just use it as feed?
>
>I put out 10 traps this past season. It was the first time I had tried any
>amount. Most of the pollen I preserved in sugar for feeding, but some I
>froze to investigate marketing it here (PEI Canada, similar climate to
>Northeast USA). Since I couldn't put it in the stores frozen I have been
>packing some in honey. I notice from visiting the COMVITA web site in New
>Zealand that they market some of their pollen in that fashion.
>
>One advantage, to my way of thinking is, is that this is sort of how the
>bees preserve the pollen when they make beebread, without whatever enzymes
>they add albeit. The disadvantage is that the pollen pellets lose their
>nice shape and colour and the jars look like they contain a rather
>homogenous and not very attractive paste.
>
>Regards Stan
>---
>Want more detail? Wondering exactly what was happening on BEE-L?
>Simply send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying
>SEND BEE-L LOG9712A You'll get the full proceedings of the week.
>In this example A = first week, 12 = Dec, 97 = 1997
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>19 Message:0019 19
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Alternate Web Site Address
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Jerry J Bromenshenk
>
>For some reason, our University's Main Server is not reliably responding to
>its name. (grizzly.umt.edu) Therefore, to reach our bee site with the
>real-time data sets, weather station, and JAVA graphing, use the alias
>address:
>
>http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees
>or
>http://www.umt.edu
>Then go to the A-Z Index, click on Bee Alert.
>
>I apologize for the inconvenience. We have asked the University Sys Ops to
>look into the "bug". Thanks to those who alerted us to the glitch.
>
>Jerry
>Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D.
>Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy
>The University of Montana-Missoula
>Missoula, MT 59812-1002
>E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu
>Tel: 406-243-5648
>Fax: 406-243-4184
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>20 Message:0020 20
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: swarm traps
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Adrian Wenner
>
>With regard to the description and use of swarm traps, Justin Schmidt just
>sent me a message: "Actually the best paper for beekeepers on swarm
traps
>is the ABJ paper "Swarm traps" 129:468-71 (1989)." And, yes, they do
>work!
>
>Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office)
>Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX)
>Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX)
>Santa Barbara, CA 93106
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>21 Message:0021 21
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: re irradiation of hives
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Robert Bowman
>
>The irradiation of bee equipment under the direction of NSW Dept of
>Agriculture requires the infected colony be destroyed and the brood combs
>burnt. This eliminates the problem of residual scales. The honey from
supers
>must be extracted.The heat during the irradiation process will otherwise
>cause honey to run out of the supers especially if not yet capped over.
>
>Honey sourced from AFB infected hives is kept separate and containers
marked
>as carrying AFB spores. This honey is directed toward manufacturing trade
by
>packers.
>
>Once irradiated the equipment is immediately available for use. The
>beekeeper only required to replace brood combs and bees.
>
>We have only one facility available in Sydney NSW and is quite happy to
>provide this type of service. The minimum unit is three decks with an
>irradiation cost around $20 Aust.
>
>Regards
>Rob Bowman
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>22 Message:0022 22
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Excerpts from BEE-L"
>To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
>Subject: Re: irradiation of hives
>
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: Robert Bowman
>
>The irradiation method used is the same as that used to sterilise items
>such as disposable surgical gloves, saline solutions for drips, condoms
>etc. The type of irradiation is the use of gamma rays emitted from
>radioactive cobalt I think. The dose rate (level of radiation) is measured
>and accurate.
>
>The irradiation is carried out by fully qualified persons in registered
>facilities. Their is no danger to the beekeeper or consumer of product from
>irradiated eqipment. The only honey permitted for irradiation is that which
>is to be used in the making of queen candy and only fed to bees. No food of
>any type for human consumption is permitted to be irradiated under
>Australian food regulations.
>
>The only facility for irradiation in NSW is located in Sydney.
>
>I live in Bathurst NSW. It is a city of around 30000 people situated in the
>Central Tablelands district of New South Wales. We have a cool to temperate
>climate. It is the oldest inland settlement of NSW and has a history of
>goldmining and agriculture. Touring car racing enthusiasts will be familiar
>with our world famous race track on Mt. Panorama which overlooks the city.
>
>The area is excellent for beekeeping (although not this year due to
>drought). We produce some high quality honeys from ground flora, canola and
>eucalypts.
>
>Good breeding conditions also make the district a favoured location for
>package and queen producers exporting to Asia, Canada, Europe and the
>Middle East.
>
>Regards
>
>Rob Bowman.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:13:07 -0600
Reply-To: allend@internode.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Allen Dick
Subject: Re: FGMO and PGMO
In-Reply-To: <34DDD721.D383D7F9@clinic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> I see no reason > not to use USP grade MO. "We only use U.S.
> Pharmaceutical grade MO in our hives.
Personally, I wonder if veterinary grade MO, which is cheap in gallon
jugs wouldn't be just fine. I suppose that will have to be decided if the
MO method becomes an accepted treatment someday.
In the meantime, I think Dr. Pedro has made it clear that he is using the
oil which in his opinion is least likely to offend the consumer -- or the
watchdawgs.
Allen
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:14:28 GMT
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd
Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi All
Jack the Bman from
Ellicott City Maryland USA
quoted me as follows:
change, etc. and newer ones who are not...>
What I wrote was
It also seems to me, that there are two kinds of
> beekeepers. One is the older variety in terms of years spent with bees. I am
> of the opinion that these beekeepers are not too open to new ideas. The
> other variety, like myself, is the newer beekeeper, who is more open to new
> ideas, since every idea to us is a new idea.
Toujours, je tiens la foi!
A bientot!
Sincerely
Tom Barrett
49 South Park
Foxrock
Dublin 18
Ireland
e mail cssl@iol.ie
Tel + 353 1 289 5269
Fax + 353 1 289 9940
Latitude 53 Deg 16' 12.8" North
Longitude 06 Deg 9' 44.9" West
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:22:31 -0600
Reply-To: allend@internode.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Allen Dick
Subject: Fresh Air
In-Reply-To: <199802080541.VAA22263@mail.thegrid.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> ... this argument about the hive itself being clean or not as having
> anything at all to do with the honey produced from that hive. Some areas
> of the world still have beekeepers who keep bees in hives made of clay
> sealed up with mud and the dung of animals and they consume all the
> honey their bees produce with no reported problems.
Thanks for the fresh air, Andy. I still recall your talking about the
purity (NOT) of beekeeper collected bee pollen for human consumption and
your reasons for no longer participating in the promotion thereof.
---
Since the discovery of microbes some few short centuries ago, the
thinking of western man has shifted a little. What was formerly ascribed
to sin, invisible spirits and vapours very quickly became understood in
terms of tiny -- invisible to the naked eye -- organisms. Naturally many
of the fear and superstitions attached to the former came through and
became attached to the latter in the public mind. Sterility is equated
with virtue. Cleanliness is next to godliness.
Nonetheless, even the most coddled infant usually manages to eat at least a
few handsful of dirt before being snatched from the ground and I am sure
that the little pebbles left by sheep and goats and rabbits -- and similar
items found in the backyards of urban children visited by cats and dogs --
have found their way into the mouths of many, if not most, healthy
toddlers -- along with virtually any other suitably sized item within
grasp. Yet we usually survive and prosper. Mouthing and even ingesting
foul findings is usually not eventful. And as an interesting example of
how our prejudices in favour of 'cleanliness' can be suspect , MS is
(counter-intuitively) associated with countries where hygiene is the
'best', not localities where people live in squalor.
As it happens, the vast majority of microbes are either benign or offer no
threat to us. The list of dangerous bacteria and moulds is a tiny tiny
subset of the total microbial population. Most often those that are most
dangerous have to have recently come from a host that shares our shape and
form. It is the presence of our own kind that is most dangerous to our
health. Even our pets share very few microbial diseases with us.
The idea of eating insects and their products is unattractive to the
westen mind, with almost the sole exception of honey. The idea of eating
microorganisms and their products is usually restricted to wines and beers
and cheese related items.
Bees and humans share no known diseases. We are very different. Mice and
other rodents and environmental vectors may introduce contaminants that
could be dangerous, but the likelihood is low. The major threat to health
is the beekeeper.
I suppose we could wonder about mouse urine and feces -- the most common
mamalian contaminants associated with honey, however, I believe that I
have heard that urine is normally sterile. The feces is not, however. Is
it a threat? I don't know. What I do know is that I have seen it in bee
pollen that has bee cleaned and prepared for market and yet no one died
--or even complained.
I also know that my neighbours here go through the fields harvesting
wheat each fall, and in the process mice, skunks and other animals
occasionally go through the machine and some trace of them must be dumped
in the bin with the grain. Once the grain is in the bin or on the ground,
the mice run though and leave their evidence, the birds fly over and or
nest above the grain, and then the grain goes to be made into bread or
granola or whatever. FWIW, I am not sure that enough heat is used in the
many products that contain grains and flour to sterilise. Yet the
population of humans in our cities and countryside thrives.
What am I saying? I guess I am saying that sterility -- the goal of
modern food and environmental management -- is a simplistic way of
dealing with a problem. And moreover I am suggesting it is not the best
approach. There are many beneficial organisms that are damaged and lost
when a wholesale disinfecting and eradicating approach is used, rather
than a management approach. I guess I have this belief in common with the
Rodale 'organic' crowd.
To me it seems to be a weak strategy to kill all your friends -- and
strangers too -- because there may be an enemy among them. Such
solutions are based on fear and ignorance rather than strength and
wisdom. Although they have obvious beneficial immediate effects in many
cases and offer a way to deal ad hoc, I suspect that in the long run they
are suboptimal and firther I believe that far wiser and more subtle
management can be used to advantage.
At any rate, the whole question of the 'cleanliness' and sterility of the
hive interior seems irrelevant to me. Every day I breathe in air that
includes samples of everything that is volatile or can produce dust (or
ride on dust) in my environment. It is far from sterile. I trust that the
same air passes through the beehives. I bite my fingernails. They are
clean, but not not sterile. What concerns me is this: Are there any
things naturally present in the hive that I may not reasonably be expected
to be able to handle and remain healthy if they get into the honey? I
think not.
In regard chemical threats, we have Jerry B and his helpers to thank for
researching this, and sharing the results. It seems that honey is
remarkably free of environmental chemicals.
In regard bacterial contamination, it seems that there are few bacteria
that can survive immersion in honey and none that I know of that cause
human disease. There are some spore forming bacteria that can be a cause
of concern such as the spores that result in botulism. I wonder about
anthrax and typhoid. People can carry typhoid and spread it without
getting it themselves. Can mice? I don't know if mice get anthrax, but
humans do. And I believe I've heard that anthrax occasionally breaks out
in South America. In honey producing regions? I wonder if there are any
on the list that have knowledge of the very small list of human diseases
that *might* be able to be spread through honey?
It seems to me that the chances of dangerous bacterial contamination
occuring in a hive is negligible to zero. I'm not so sure about the
possibility of something like that happening in the extraction and
bottling.
Allen
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:19:30 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Bill Fernihough
Subject: Early Pollen - Vancouver Canada
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just to report pollen arriving at a very early date, January 30, 1998.
First time I have seen it that early, Feb. 7 was next earliest. Of course,
I also cut my grass and did some gardening that day. Wife went for walk
and found many flowers in bloom covered with my bees, in the neighborhood.
And our first robin of the year was spotted too!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:41:06 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Jon C Peacock
Subject: Edu. Site - Flower Show?
Greeting to List Members.
I have a request. Please send to address below,
your ideas for an "Education Site" at furture South Eastern
Flower Shows. In mid February of 1998, there will be
the Annual 'Southeastern Flower Show', in midtown
Atlanta, Georgia. The flower show typically draws 56,000
people in five days at 9 hours per day. Our local Bee
keepers association is allowed a 10 foot square area in
which to set up an educational site where 1,200 plus
people will walk past in a 9 hour period. The site is
inside an OLD 'Sear & Roebuck' building in downtown
Atlanta, Georgia. The floor is concrete, the walls are
OLD cinder blocks and the area is actually very cool for
early February. We typically show a single frame of a
deep super, Observation hive. Both long sides are open
for public inspection thru plexi glass, with Bee keepers
on duty for information and safety. The Observation
hive is a real drawing card. We, the local association,
do not have money to donate to this site and we are not
allowed to sell anything to fund the endevor. The
positive side, we find new members, we make contacts
for honey or hive products or bee talks that almost make
it profitable. We need ideas for the smallish area. We
have had themes, Bees are Angles of Argiculure, Evolution
of the Bee Hive, Extinct - Wild Bees We have Known,
and others. The folks that set up and run the Flower
Show will donate all the flowers the area will hold. It is
awkward to explain to a attentive group, that bees do not
work the White and Purple Hyacinth or the Daffodils that
blanket the area. Honey displays, 10 jars or hundreds are
a complete flop. The folks want to buy. "Why can't I buy
a jar, there are dozens of bottles just sitting there. Or
"Un hu, lotsa pretty colors, can I taste one of the pretty
yellow jars up near the top?" No, we don't do that sort of
thing to the general public. The Atlanta Flower Show
--folks want an 'Educational Bee Keepers site' set up. I have
some 'little theatre' experience, but the local club thinks
I'm daff to suggest making a 'set' liken a Bee Yard. And you cannot get
technical with the general public. They are real
quick with, "Oh mumm", and wander away. Any suggestion
gladly accepted. Thanks. E-mail: jayseapcok@Juno.com
J.C.Peacock, :-}, US Postal Address;
6660 Imperial Dr., Morrow, GA 30260-2208
Retired Staff Sargent. Granddad to 6. 3 of each.
14 years B keepr. 8 Italian hives. Small Craft sailor.
One eyed cabinet maker. *-) , "Every day discover something new in the
every day things around you,
look at things differently."
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:37:25 -0500
Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject: Re: "Fresh Air"
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Oooooops. I just realized that I made an error in my previous post on
this thread.
Instead of tetanus, I should have said, botulism. My apologies to the
list.
Regards.
Dr. R.
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Oooooops. I just realized that I made an error in my previous post
on this thread.
Instead of tetanus, I should have said, botulism. My apologies
to the list.
Regards.
Dr. R.
--------------76F091A5C5D75E2E8C8471B3--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:34:50 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Gerhard Pape
Subject: Effects of oil on brood development.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
About FGMO. Why are we so concerned about ourselfs?
The discussion is going on and on about the honey and the wax we want to
sell. Okay, but. . .
Does nobody feel any concern with the bees flying out for pollen while
there body is covered with a thin layer of oil? This oil must come into the
food for the home bees and the larvae! Can larvae and bees digest this oil?
Can they digest vegetable oil as well or better?
Question before I start using the Rodrigez-method of fighting varroa; has
there been noticed any influence on the brood developement during the
application of oil?
Gerhard Pape
Ermelo
Netherlands
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:08:04 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Andy Nachbaur
Subject: pOllen > Re: Fresh Air
In-Reply-To: <16234549949649@internode.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:22 AM 2/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks for the fresh air, Andy. I still recall your talking about the
>purity (NOT) of beekeeper collected bee pollen for human consumption and
>your reasons for no longer participating in the promotion thereof.
Hi Allen, & Bee Friend,
I know you did not ask but this comes to mind and I must again say it, if
again:
Yes for many years I trapped pollen from my bee hives, I was one of the
early leaders in this field, I even have an unpublished book on the subject
that I may put on the Internet some day. I trapped pollen first for
the information on what my bees were working and my own use to feed my own
bees and later on to supply other beekeepers with pollen to feed their
bees. It is one of the most enjoyable experiences I had in keeping bees.
Early on I filled requests for bee collected pollen from research
institutes such as were doing bee research and human research, at no cost
to them and I even paid the shipping of the 30#, five gallon cans and
latter on plastic buckets. I harvested, cleaned, and froze all the pollen I
collected and only by accident when I misplaced a can did I find out how
real super bee feed could be produced by naturally fermenting the pollen
before using it, which never has been much reported by me or anyone else.
(you saw it here first on the Internet) I also learned how to produce
wax worm silk, and wax worm parasites but that's another story.
Why did I stop when I saw the price increase from $1.00 per pound I was
charging to $5.00 per pound. Two things really bothered me, one was people
were using pollen as a food and I knew that unlike honey that in its
Natural, Organic or Pure condition is relatively safe for most people to
eat with about the same numbers of people having problems as those who have
problems from bee stings, but with pollen which is not and has never been a
clean food and contains every bad thing that can be found in our
environment the number of people who have problems when consuming it rises
to levels maybe 100,000 times that of honey, mostly from allergies, and I
did not want to become involved in that kind of business. This was my own
choice and today pollen as a human food or food supplement is greater then
it ever was and can be found in many forms in most any national retail drug
store besides that which is hawked by the normal outlets for so called
health foods and as far as I know NO one is being made ill or dying from
eating it, but there is some Luck in everything we do today, just ask our
President...
People who sell pollen for human consumption and those who buy it to eat
always remind me that at one time I raised big fat red worms commercially
and all they ever got to eat was smart pills from my 200 doe rabbitry.
These worms grew to sizes never seen in the wild, they were so sexy that I
could not only sell the whole worms but I could sell their eggs by the
gallon to others who wanted to start their own worm farm. I never did try
to sell anybody on the idea that smart pills from rabbits would be good
human food but it sure was good food for the worms. Not once did I ever
have anyone buy any smart pills from me to eat so they would get the same
benefits as my worms got from consuming them.
Pollen is the best natural bee food I have ever found and yet I am not
convinced it is even safe for human consumption. I can say for a fact
research was done to grow hair on over sexed bald men and it did not change
their sex drive or grow any hair. RR fed it to his horses, if he ate it
himself it sure did not keep him from getting old or old timers disease, he
always has been older then me and to be alive and much loved at 87 is
great. I tasted my pollen often myself, and even breathed it for years and
I still got cancer on the end of my noise. I once gave a 5 gallon can to a
guy who begged me for it as his wife was terminal with brain cancer and she
died. That ended it for me, I put my traps in the barn and they are still
there.
The 2nd reason I stopped also has to do with bee research (BS) and is
closer to what most of us do everyday and that is the attempt to keep
healthy bees by adding to their diets sugar and proteins including some
pollen. When I started trapping pollen chalk brood was unknown or rare in
the bees hives in the USA. Some old timers could remember seeing it back in
the early 40's, but few had ever seen it, including myself and none had a
problem with it. Later on at the time it was being found and becoming a
problem here in the US and other places I started trapping pollen, I had NO
chalk brood at the time or none I could see. I was selling pollen to the
USDA for them to feed their research bees at $1.00 per pound, each year
they took a few more cans and each year it took more red tape and longer to
receive payment for it. It got so bad I had to sign legal forms that I was
not a Red mad dog commie, that I hired all who asked for work including the
mentally ill and blind, and much more. Hard to believe I had to sign a
Loyalty Oath just to sell the USDA bee pollen they wanted to feed their
bees and then wait six months to receive payment. Even I have limits to
what I will do for my country and one year when I to this day do not know
if I was ever paid for the year before's shipment of pollen I raised my
price to $3.00 per pound to cover the added costs of doing business with
the government..
I never sold another pound of pollen to the USDA, but even though the same
laws that I must obey specifically state that the USDA will buy all farm
product and more from a US source first before going off shore for their
needs they chose to buy their pollen from a northern producer using an
importer to cover their tails. This northern producer had a bad chalk brood
problem and would grind up the mummies with the pollen and sell the
resulting product that contained a very high percentage of chalk brood
spores, I am talking 5-10% by weight. I did not know at the time but the
pollen that I was selling the USDA and what they purchased from the north
was used by more then one bee lab and of course they all broke down with
chalk brood almost at once. We got a lot of chalk brood research after that
as you could well understand and no information a beekeeper could use to
cure it other then not feed pollen with chalk brood mummies or trapped from
hives that have chalk brood. Yes we pay for that kind of common sense
information everyday when we look to our regulatory scientists to do bee
research and in enlightened places like the Left Coast of America we pay
twice because if the University of California does not do the research work
it won't work here or be permitted here until they do it. I never knowingly
trapped pollen from a hive with chalk brood, and if I found a hive with it
I would stop trapping it. I have seen others who were trapping pollen for
human consumption that were able to clean out five gallon or more buckets
of chalk brood mummies every day which does make good chicken feed or at
least they will eat it. That bee outfit does not sell pollen for bee feed
or even feed their own pollen, no wonder.
Anyway I think those who feed pollen other then that which they know was
produced from hives that did not have chalk brood are flirting with
disaster of a scale that could conceivably put them out of the bee business
as to this date there is no cure for chalk brood. The best pollen for
feeding bees is like the best queens for re-queening them and that is what
the beekeeper produced with his own hands. Some bee breeders would never
trust even their own kids with picking breeder queens, most will let their
wife's do the grafting if they are that lucky to have one who will do it,
and I would think the same care should be done when picking the yards to
trap pollen, any chalk brood in any yard should be enough to stop trapping
in that yard if possible, unless you are going to sell it to the USDA Bee
Labs. It is not even clear if the pollen from a hive with chalk brood needs
to have the mummies to pass on the chalk brood to another hive, I suspect
not but don't know the answer. Chalk brood could be like AFB spores and the
numbers required to cause an infection is very high so that an occasional
few thousand or million spores may not cause any symptoms.
There is so much that we beekeeper know not of what we speak when it comes
to the environment and bees that is basic it boggles my mind. I too look to
Jerry B. to blaze some new trails into a better understanding of what we
all assume is natural and may not be all so pristine. I do know that the
honey from the most secluded mountain tops far removed from man, machines,
and their dirt does contain detectable levels of hydro carbons and other
things that we would/should not expect to be there. But then we can now
find a speck of dust on a beach and no one would expect that speck to be a
problem unless it is the one that triggered that cancer on the end of my
noise and then I say clean up the beach.
Well I am going out to pick up 10-39 cent hamburger a MacDonalds, just look
what they did for our President and he only eats them one at a time. I will
report back if the young girls are successfully in molesting me.
ttul, the OLd Drone
"Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers"
(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:39:29 -0600
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Teresa Garcma
Subject: About AFB resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I just want to pass on an idea given by Susan Cobey, to test resistance
of bees to AFB. As you might know, the original test involved cutting a
square of comb with capped brood, then put it in the freezer and then
return it to the hole left in the original comb. If the bees cleaned all
the dead brood, they were "resistant" to AFB, if not, they would be
highly susceptible.
The modification consists of pinning the square of brood, so to kill the
larvae, but without the neccessity to remove and put back the comb.
This way, she can select for resistant bees to AFB.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:42:28 -0500
Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject: Re: Effects of oil on brood development.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Mr. Pape.
About FGMO. I see that you, like many people that read about FGMO have
the impression that bees are "plastered" with mineral oil. If you have read my
files, you'll immediately realize that I state emphatically that the amount of
oil used for killing mites must be used very conscientiously, carefully,
because the bees BREATH in the same manner that the mites do. If too much oil
is applied, then the bees are killed too. I have
now "fine tuned" my procedure to a point that there is hardly any risk involved
for the bees because the amount of oil used is minute! Just enough to affect
the mites but definitely no harm to the bees and definitely not enough of it to
get into the honey! The results of this years phase of study should be
available to the public sometime this coming summer.
In approximately 1 1/2 years of continued use of mineral oil in my hives,
I have not noticed any effect on the larvae. The oil, as I apply it, does not
affect the larvae.
People are assuming things about the method used for mineral that are not
there. If my instructions for the procedure are followed, there will not be
any excess oil to affect the bees, the honey, the larvae or the wax.
Please remember that I am doing this work because I love bees! I don't
wish for any thing wrong to happen to my bees or any other person's bees. Also
please remember, that I am not doing this type of work for a salary, that my
work is strictly non profit. The only benefit that may be derived from this
study is strictly for the well being of beekeeping.
In summary, I have found that carefully applied mineral oil is an
excellent form of bee mites control without deleterious effects on the colony
and its contents. After continued used of mineral oil, laboratory tests should
be performed to determine if in effect mineral oil has an influence on bees
wax. As I speak, I have not noticed any harmful (or otherwise) effect on the
combs or wax that I have rendered.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:51:06 -0600
Reply-To: gmc@vci.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: beeman
Subject: FGMO
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all, i would like to ask everyone that has/ is using FGMO to send
their results to me, and tell how long they have used it, how they are
appling it, are they are using a combo of things, and how often they are
using it. i am going to try it this year and i was wondering how
everyone was using it and the effects, please send me the results via
PRIVATE EMAIL to gmc@vci.net... thanks to all!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:25:45 +0100
Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth"
Subject: Re: About AFB resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dear Teresa,
I know those tests where you kill some larvae (by freezing or with a
needle) and count the time until the dead brood is torn out of the
combs. But what do you mean with "resistant to AFB". I personally doubt
whether this can be find out by those tests. The only thing what you can
test by this way is the cleaning behavior of that hive or breed nothing
else. This tells you nothing special about "resistance" to AFB, varroa
mites or anything else.
> I just want to pass on an idea given by Susan Cobey, to test resistance
> of bees to AFB. As you might know, the original test involved cutting a
> square of comb with capped brood, then put it in the freezer and then
> return it to the hole left in the original comb. If the bees cleaned all
> the dead brood, they were "resistant" to AFB, if not, they would be
> highly susceptible.
> The modification consists of pinning the square of brood, so to kill the
> larvae, but without the neccessity to remove and put back the comb.
> This way, she can select for resistant bees to AFB.
Yours sincerely
Reimund
Beekeeper from Germany (Bavaria)
Queen Breeding of Carniolan Bees
Insemination Station
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:00:10 +0200
Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Marian Pintilie
Organization: -
Subject: Re: bee hives are clean? > propolis > FGMO and PGMO
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Andy
Thanks for your long and interesting answer
Thank you for your long and interesting answer.
The discussion passed to an interesting subject, immunisation,
Allen pointed the facts better than I could.
> Well if we have to be careful of what we say, scientific or not, then >I give up and declare you the winner .
I should be glad. But I'm not. The way you said it seems like
a cover up. I wanted truth, that's way I asked for scientific approach.
and wish you lots of luck convincing the
> public that honey is better then other food products because it comes from
> wooden bee hives, plastic bee hives, or even bee trees.
????????????????
> I personally think of honey as a natural sweetener
If this is not a sample of your black humour ( I like humour in
every form, but this joke I did not understood)
than you still have a lot to learn.
Costel
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:36:52 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C."
Subject: Releasing a queen prematurely
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
HI from Rainy Santa Barbara,
One of my hives being tended by a beginning beekeeper swarmed on Fri while
I was in Las Vegas. Fortunately my student was onthe ball and captured the
hive in a cardboard box, covered with plastic to protect it from some heavy
rains we have been having.
There was a brief lull in the storm today so we cracked open the hive,
separating the two brood chambers to show him what queen cells look like in
various stages of development. Mostly undeveloped queens but there was one
which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out of her cell and
disappeared down into the colony.
I told my student that I hope she is mature enough to get rid of all the
others. THe rainy weather will keep the bees caged for the next week so
plenty of time for her to destroy the rivals.
Keeping my fingers crossed that she does fly from the hive with a secondary
swarm.
Anyone else had this experience?
Paul Cronshaw DC
Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:31:29 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Iannuzzi
Subject: Re: Early Pollen - Baltimore Metro ARea
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980208091928.006bbd14@istar.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
January 8 was the date. Obviously skunk cabbage in
bloom. Usually this is around the ides of February!
Am still feeding my bees. Started 1nov and won't
quit until the honeyflow, May 1. I want those
colonies to bee boiling w/ bees by then.
**John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.
**38 years in apiculture
**12 hives of Italian honeybees
**At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of
Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279]
**"Forsooth there is some good in things evil
For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon
**Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey
**Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:36:57 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Iannuzzi
Subject: Re: Edu. Site - Flower Show?
In-Reply-To: <19980208.134214.4239.1.jayseapcok@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
The setup you described at the Flower Show in Atlanta promoting
beekeeping was very well done but I didn't see a monitor
showing a bee video over and over? Of course, that
observation hive is a sine qua non! What about a mannequin
in a bee suit and veil holding a smoker and a hive tool?
Bonne chance!
**John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.
**38 years in apiculture
**12 hives of Italian honeybees
**At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of
Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279]
**"Forsooth there is some good in things evil
For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon
**Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey
**Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:39:46 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Frederick L. Hollen"
Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely
In-Reply-To: ; from "Paul Cronshaw,
D.C." at Feb 8, 98 3:36 pm
Hello,
I had almost the same experience the summer before last. I had
just acquired a few established hives and was told that one had
recently swarmed. When I opened this hive ( a 3-medium brood
chamber) a queen cell between the boxes was broken open and what
appeared to be a fully-developed queen disappeared quickly into
the lower box. I do not know what became of her but I still
have the hive and it is very much alive.
These hives, BTW, had been totally unattended since the
beekeeper died in 1992 until I took them over in 1996. The
family had left them in place but had not touched them.. . .
I did find them to have Varroa in the drone cells so I treated
them with Apistan. . .So no way to evaluate any
possible natural resistance, but I do still have the same bees.
Regards,
Fred
(in Virginia)
According to Paul Cronshaw, D.C.:
>
> HI from Rainy Santa Barbara,
>
> One of my hives being tended by a beginning beekeeper swarmed on Fri while
> I was in Las Vegas. Fortunately my student was onthe ball and captured the
> hive in a cardboard box, covered with plastic to protect it from some heavy
> rains we have been having.
>
> There was a brief lull in the storm today so we cracked open the hive,
> separating the two brood chambers to show him what queen cells look like in
> various stages of development. Mostly undeveloped queens but there was one
> which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out of her cell and
> disappeared down into the colony.
>
> I told my student that I hope she is mature enough to get rid of all the
> others. THe rainy weather will keep the bees caged for the next week so
> plenty of time for her to destroy the rivals.
>
> Keeping my fingers crossed that she does fly from the hive with a secondary
> swarm.
>
> Anyone else had this experience?
>
> Paul Cronshaw DC
> Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:42:40 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Iannuzzi
Subject: Re: Effects of oil on brood development.
In-Reply-To: <199802082136.WAA10097@solair1.inter.NL.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Please clarify for me if the Rodriquez mineral-oil method
is for T-mite, V-mite or both. I've been using vegetable oil
on a paper towel, between the two deep broodchamberrs, for years--
in the spring before the extracting supers go on and in the fall
after they come off; therefore, there is no possibility of honey
contamination.
On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Gerhard Pape wrote:
> About FGMO. Why are we so concerned about ourselfs?
> The discussion is going on and on about the honey and the wax we want to
> sell. Okay, but. . .
> Does nobody feel any concern with the bees flying out for pollen while
> there body is covered with a thin layer of oil? This oil must come into the
> food for the home bees and the larvae! Can larvae and bees digest this oil?
> Can they digest vegetable oil as well or better?
>
> Question before I start using the Rodrigez-method of fighting varroa; has
> there been noticed any influence on the brood developement during the
> application of oil?
>
> Gerhard Pape
> Ermelo
> Netherlands
>
**John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.
**38 years in apiculture
**12 hives of Italian honeybees
**At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of
Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279]
**"Forsooth there is some good in things evil
For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon
**Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey
**Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:53:18 -0500
Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject: Re: Effects of oil on brood development.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi John.
In over 1 1/2 years of testing with MO, I find that mineral oil is effective
against both types of bee mites, Varroa and tracheal mites.
Although I have not performed tests with vegetable oil, I would venture
to guess that the mechanism of action of vegetable oil is similar as with mineral
oil. However, mineral how has several advantages over vegetable oil as I
explained in my original release about my work. Have you obtained copies of the
files that I posted to Bee-L?
In them, you might find answers to a common questions that many people are asking
themselves about the efficacy and other things about mineral oil.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions or comments. I'll
always be here to reply and try to help.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:55:20 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Iannuzzi
Subject: Re: pOllen > Re: Fresh Air
In-Reply-To: <199802082208.OAA21084@mail.thegrid.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Andy Nachbar's lengthy comments disparaging pollen collection
I found interesting. I started collecting it in 1982 (1982) and
am still doing it and sell it from my front door in a one pound
glass queenline jar that holds seven ounces--$7.00. There are
no farms around here within a five mile radius--so I don't have
to worry about noxious sprays, insecticides and what not.
People buy it
as a high protein
food or to fight allergies. I've been running seven traps for
years. In fact, I'm in the processing of installing them again
right now (temperature here today, in the Baltimore metro area,
hit 60 degrees F.)
I can only say: "Suum cuique."
**John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.
**38 years in apiculture
**12 hives of Italian honeybees
**At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of
Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279]
**"Forsooth there is some good in things evil
For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon
**Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey
**Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:05:20 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Bill Bartlett
Subject: Pollen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It just seems to me because the bees obtain almost all of their vitamins,
protein and minerals from pollen, that it must have some benefits. Maybe
it is good for allergies for some. Not everyone can take penicilin. One
day maybe we can get enough research done to look more at the products of
the hive.
billy bee
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:03:36 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: George W Imirie
Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Now in my 65th year with bees, I recall the days of using boiling lye
solutions, scorching hive bodies and bottom boards with gasoline blow torches
and using sulfur drugs to HOPEFULLY clean up AFB spores.
Have you ever seen a person burned by lye, burned by a gasoline blow torch, or
burned by HOT wax? I have! Best that you "play politics" and get your state
to fund an ethylene oxide fumigation chamber like Maryland and North Carolina.
Although many beekeepers use Terramycin for AFB, unfortunately, many
beekeepers think that treatment with TM or Extender Patties KILLS American
Foul Brood spores. IT DOES NOT! It only controls AFB, just like shots of
insulin controls diabetes, but does not kill or cure diabetes.
In my 65 years, always having 20-100+ colonies (a scientific hobby only), I
have never used any Terramycin, because I do not want the presence of AFB
sores HIDDEN. If hidden, not knowing I have AFB in my apiary, It can be
quickly spread to every colony and my other apiaries by contaminated tools,
hive parts, and HONEY.
TOTAL BURNING of bees, hives, frames, wax, brood, pollen, EVERYTHING is the
BEST solution and CHEAPEST in the lung run unless you have access to ethylene
oxide fumigation or gamma ray irradiation.
Since my bees are in the early crop area of Maryland & Virginia, I have had
Carniolans for almost 50 years.
Wishing a great 1998 to you and your bees, I am George Imirie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:30:16 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Bill Bartlett
Subject: Organic honey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
IMHO...... We are inviting some very unpleasant things into our
hobby/commercial endevor.
You will have people involved in making laws about your honey operation
that know very little about bees and how we operate. From the very first
when I started beekeeping over 25 years ago it was explained to me that the
less involvement "outsiders" have in our operation the better. You will
notice that we are free to carry on without the hinderences of government.
Very few products
for human consumption have such few regulations. Ask farmers, who happen
to have bees how much they are regulated.
Until we can stop using chemicals in the hive and we can tell our bees
where to go and what bring home, we can not and should not be clamoring for
"Organic Honey".
bill bee
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:20:42 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Alden P. Marshall"
Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure
>bees preserve the pollen when they make beebread, without whatever
>enzymes
>they add albeit. The disadvantage is that the pollen pellets lose
>their
>nice shape and colour and the jars look like they contain a rather
>homogenous and not very attractive paste.
>
Perhaps this could be sold as a pollen / honey spread ? can
imagine it is not very attractive.
Alden Marshall
B-Line Apiaries
Hudson, NH 03051
Busybee9@Juno.com
tel. 603-883-6764
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:35:42 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Alden P. Marshall"
Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure
I
dry
Yes indeed, I have a vented solar drier that works very well. It
will hold three 1.5' x 2.5' screen bottom trays. It takes about 1 sunny
day to dry the pollen to pass the pinch test (if pollen pellets pinched
together do not adhere dry enough), real scientific huh? Pollen keeps for
months in tightly sealed jars without molding. Pellets are not so dry
that a hard pinch can't crumble them. I clean my pollen whereas most who
freeze instead of dry do not. I defy anyone who does not dry pollen to do
a descent job of cleaning in any reasonable period of time. Of course
there are arguments for and against both freezing and drying. The few I
know in this area who trap freeze it.
Alden Marshall
B-Line Apiaries
Hudson, NH 03051
Busybee9@Juno.com
tel. 603-883-6764
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:14:48 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Alden P. Marshall"
Subject: Re: Pollen Trapping Affect Honey Production?
On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:27:08 -0600 "Excerpts from BEE-L"
writes:
>Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology
>From: John Iannuzzi
>
>This message is based on 15 years of pollen trapping, as a h o b b y
>beekeeper never opeating more than 30 hives at one time--I now have
>12--nor
>more than seven Stauffer pollen traps--still using seven. BTW, the
>best out
>there, for my money, having used 11 different trap configurations, is
>
>(2) Obiter dicta: Remember, the bees are still carrying honey. The
>pollen is
>carried into the hive on the bee's two hindmost legs, a pellet each,
>whereas
>the nectar (potential honey) is brought in via the honey stomach,
>whether the
>bees are collecting pollen or not.
>
I believe research ha shown that all foragers do not necessarily
carry both nectar and pollen. dedicated foragers must make more trips to
and from the hive to provide necessary pollen. Only so many bees can
provide so many resources and if we are taking them then there is a
depletion somewhere.
>(3) "The proper trap?" The Stauffer trap has t h r e e internal
>beeways:
>one across the front and one each on the long sides, whereas of the
>ten
>others I've seen or used have only o n e: the opening across the
>front. This
>severely restricts movement of the bees into and out of the hive.
>
>Jack the Bman
>
I am surprised to hear that only one entrance to the trap is a
restriction. IMHO I believe the stripper is the limiting factor. If bees
are not restricted at the entrance without the trap why so with the trap?
If the trap in use has the drawer below the stripper, and by design they
must all be so, pull the drawer during heavy foraging and observe the
congestion at the stripper. My traps are my design but I can state that
they are not much different than many other designs. there are some
little changes one can make,to them to help keep the pollen clean, such
as a restricted cover over the stripper that catches dropped dibree
forcing the bees to carry it out . My traps are also designed to allow
exit without going through the stripper.
I have onlyt had personal experience with one other type of trap,
the one that mounts out front between the brood and honey supers, found
that to be very unsatisfactory.
>
>
Alden Marshall
B-Line Apiaries
Hudson, NH 03051
Busybee9@Juno.com
tel. 603-883-6764
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:48:30 +0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Robert Bowman
Subject: Re: About AFB resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My understanding of AFB resistance and resistance to other brood diseases
such as EFB and chalkbrood involves the housekeeping ability of the bees as
opposed to a genetic resistance to the disease itself.
AFB resistance involves the ability of house keeping bees to identify and
remove infected larvae at an early stage of disease development. Thus the
resistance is a whole colony resistance as opposed to an individual bee
resistance. This allows the breeder to then select queens from hives which
exhibit such behaviour if they are developing a line of disease resistance
into their breeder queen genetic pool.
I have seen this done with a reasonable amount of success for chalkbrood in
that selected queens had colonies with low levels of chalkbrood as opposed
to those not selected for house keeping qualities.
As AFB is the primary disease of concern in Australia I would appreciate
any opinions or scientific data available on resistance and control
methods.
Currently Terramycin is not permitted as a control method, leaving burning
or irradiationof hives the only options to affected beekeepers.
Regards
Rob Bowman
Bathurst Australia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:13:41 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Andy Nachbaur
Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure
In-Reply-To: <19980209.015311.13094.6.busybee9@juno.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:35 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>dry the pollen?
> Yes indeed, I have a vented solar drier that works very well. It
>will hold three 1.5' x 2.5' screen bottom trays. It takes about 1 sunny
>day to dry the pollen to pass the pinch test (if pollen pellets pinched
>together do not adhere dry enough), real scientific huh? Pollen keeps for
>months in tightly sealed jars without molding. Pellets are not so dry
>that a hard pinch can't crumble them.
Hi Alden & Bee Friends,
Maybe I don't believe bee pollen is God's gift of food to man but I do know
from personal commercial experience producing pollen and working with
others who had commercial interests in marketing pollen a tad about how it
can be done commercially so that the pollen is acceptable to the bulk
pollen buyer and the consuming public.
First let me say that IMHO most who dry pollen are not selling a natural
product as even the bees would have a hard time when its that hard and much
of the food value for bees would be destroyed in just a few hours of sun or
heating. I agree that if you live in an area of high moisture you must
take steps to preserve and protect the pollen from moisture most do this in
the construction of the trap itself, but at the same time cooked pollen is
like cooked honey and may have much local value to a large number of local
producers but certainly would not have much food value left after cooking
off those magic ingredients that are already in such minute quantizes in
natural fresh frozen pollen that so many seek in promoting pollen for human
consumption as an natural organic food supplement in the major marketing
streams.
> I clean my pollen whereas most who freeze instead of dry do not. I defy
anyone who does not dry >pollen to do a descent job of cleaning in any
reasonable period of time. Of course
>there are arguments for and against both freezing and drying. The few I
know in this area who trap >freeze it.
Again lets not paint everyone with the same brush, I have never had to dry
pollen and I have never known a commercial pollen producer who dried pollen
but I only know a few of those in the southwest, Arizona, Colorado, and
California and none had a moisture problem. The two pollen cleaning
machines I used left little for the sorters to hand pick out. I have no
idea what would cause anyone to believe that those who produce pollen in
the dry southwest or the desert areas would have any interest in drying
pollen or be less likely to do a good job cleaning their pollen before sale
then any other beekeeper trying to do a good job in preparing his pollen
for market, this just has not been my own experience working with other
pollen producers.
I only write this so that maybe others will figure out that there is more
then one way to produce good high quality pollen. Fresh frozen pollen can
be used in more ways then cooked or dried pollen which is important if you
sell it in bulk and just maybe we should remember there are others doing
the same good job we are doing using a different method but doing a equally
good job. I even had an interest in a pill press and the pollen could not
be as moisture free as dried pollen described above or it would not bind
into a solid pill without adding a binder.
ttul, the OLd Drone
* This message certified 100% tagline free.
(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:35:10 -0500
Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject: Re: Fresh Air (edited)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94"
--------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94
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Allen Dick wrote:
"Thanks for the fresh air . . ."
Your extensive knowledge and ability to express your thoughts again
came through in an excellent manner on this subject. I agree with your
thinking in general principles, but a word of caution about
generalizations regarding food borne illness might be good food for
thought here. Along this thread, I'd like to provide a possible answer
to your question
at the bottom of your dissertation: " I wonder if anyone on this list
. . ."
Outside of botulism, I can't give any references to human
illness in which honey has been implicated as a vehicle. However, I
would be cautious about some food borne animal origin illnesses that are
contagious to humans. A good example would be leptospirosis.
"The disease occurs with various manisfestations in dogs, cattle,
pigs, sheep, goats and horses, and is transmissible to man. The disease
is enzootic in several species of
wildlife. (*) . . . Leptospira pomona infection is maintained and
spread by renal carriers in the cattle and hog populations. The common
mode of natural infection is through the intake of urine contaminated
feed or water. . . . Swine act as a reservoir of infection for
other animals and man because apparently healthy individuals can excrete
large numbers of organisms in their urine." Leptospirosis, The Merck
Veterinary Manual,
pp 384-395, 1967
(*) my note: mice and rats are among the wildlife that do shed these
organisms in their urine.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
--------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Allen Dick wrote:
"Thanks for the fresh air . . ."
Your extensive knowledge and ability to express
your thoughts again came through in an excellent manner on this subject.
I agree with your thinking in general principles, but a word of caution
about generalizations regarding food borne illness might be good food for
thought here. Along this thread, I'd like to provide a possible
answer to your question
at the bottom of your dissertation: " I wonder if anyone on this
list . . ."
Outside of botulism, I can't
give any references to human illness in which honey has been implicated
as a vehicle. However, I would be cautious about some food borne
animal origin illnesses that are contagious to humans. A good
example would be leptospirosis.
"The disease occurs with various
manisfestations in dogs, cattle, pigs, sheep, goats and horses, and is
transmissible to man. The disease is enzootic in several species
of
wildlife. (*) . . . Leptospira pomona infection
is maintained and spread by renal carriers in the cattle and hog populations.
The common mode of natural infection is through the intake of urine
contaminated feed or water. . . .
Swine act as a reservoir of infection for other animals and man because
apparently healthy individuals can excrete large numbers of organisms in
their urine." Leptospirosis, The Merck Veterinary Manual,
pp 384-395, 1967
(*) my note: mice and rats are among the wildlife
that do shed these organisms in their urine.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
--------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:51:07 -0800
Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Bill Truesdell
Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
George,
I understand that the EPA does not allow ETO to be used any more.
We are at a standstill in Maine with our ETO chamber because of that.
Bill Truesdell
Bath, ME
George W Imirie wrote:
> Best that you "play politics" and get your state
> to fund an ethylene oxide fumigation chamber like Maryland and North Carolina.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:03:24 +0000
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Richard Bonney
Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> There was a brief lull in the storm today so we cracked open the hive,
> separating the two brood chambers to show him what queen cells look >like in various stages of development. Mostly undeveloped queens but
>there was one which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out of >her cell and disappeared down into the colony.
Do you make anything of her backing out rather than emerging normally?
Dick Bonney
rebonney@javanet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:28:37 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Iannuzzi
Subject: Re: Cleaning Pollen, etc.
In-Reply-To: <199802090813.AAA04940@mail.thegrid.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Andy and Alden,
I've read your posts about cleaning pollen, etc.
I think both of you err since you don't make the
distinction between the hobby collector (like me)
and the commerical one.
Incidentally I freeze mine AFTER it's dried to
prevent wax-worm egg hatch out--it is ALWAYS
present. The dried pollen is sold in one-pound
queenline jars.
I don't have any problems w/ mold, vermin, etc.
I've been doing it sinc 1982 (1982). I will
bee the first to admit that my method is labor-intensive!
Again, "suum cuique." That's what makes the world go around.
On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Andy Nachbaur wrote:
> At 12:35 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >
> >dry the pollen?
>
> > Yes indeed, I have a vented solar drier that works very well. It
> >will hold three 1.5' x 2.5' screen bottom trays. It takes about 1 sunny
> >day to dry the pollen to pass the pinch test (if pollen pellets pinched
> >together do not adhere dry enough), real scientific huh? Pollen keeps for
> >months in tightly sealed jars without molding. Pellets are not so dry
> >that a hard pinch can't crumble them.
>
> Hi Alden & Bee Friends,
>
> Maybe I don't believe bee pollen is God's gift of food to man but I do know
> from personal commercial experience producing pollen and working with
> others who had commercial interests in marketing pollen a tad about how it
> can be done commercially so that the pollen is acceptable to the bulk
> pollen buyer and the consuming public.
>
> First let me say that IMHO most who dry pollen are not selling a natural
> product as even the bees would have a hard time when its that hard and much
> of the food value for bees would be destroyed in just a few hours of sun or
> heating. I agree that if you live in an area of high moisture you must
> take steps to preserve and protect the pollen from moisture most do this in
> the construction of the trap itself, but at the same time cooked pollen is
> like cooked honey and may have much local value to a large number of local
> producers but certainly would not have much food value left after cooking
> off those magic ingredients that are already in such minute quantizes in
> natural fresh frozen pollen that so many seek in promoting pollen for human
> consumption as an natural organic food supplement in the major marketing
> streams.
>
> > I clean my pollen whereas most who freeze instead of dry do not. I defy
> anyone who does not dry >pollen to do a descent job of cleaning in any
> reasonable period of time. Of course
> >there are arguments for and against both freezing and drying. The few I
> know in this area who trap >freeze it.
>
> Again lets not paint everyone with the same brush, I have never had to dry
> pollen and I have never known a commercial pollen producer who dried pollen
> but I only know a few of those in the southwest, Arizona, Colorado, and
> California and none had a moisture problem. The two pollen cleaning
> machines I used left little for the sorters to hand pick out. I have no
> idea what would cause anyone to believe that those who produce pollen in
> the dry southwest or the desert areas would have any interest in drying
> pollen or be less likely to do a good job cleaning their pollen before sale
> then any other beekeeper trying to do a good job in preparing his pollen
> for market, this just has not been my own experience working with other
> pollen producers.
>
> I only write this so that maybe others will figure out that there is more
> then one way to produce good high quality pollen. Fresh frozen pollen can
> be used in more ways then cooked or dried pollen which is important if you
> sell it in bulk and just maybe we should remember there are others doing
> the same good job we are doing using a different method but doing a equally
> good job. I even had an interest in a pill press and the pollen could not
> be as moisture free as dried pollen described above or it would not bind
> into a solid pill without adding a binder.
>
> ttul, the OLd Drone
>
> * This message certified 100% tagline free.
>
>
>
> (c)Permission is given to copy this document
> in any form, or to print for any use.
>
> (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!
>
**John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.
**38 years in apiculture
**12 hives of Italian honeybees
**At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of
Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279]
**"Forsooth there is some good in things evil
For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon
**Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey
**Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:55:50 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Curtis Seyfried
Subject: Is there a BEE-L FAQ ?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Is there a Bee-L Frequently Asked Questions ( FAQ ) ?
What is AFB ?
Peace and Good Health, (;->)
Curtis Seyfried
cseyfrie@mail.interport.net , curtisseyfri@valise.com
CS Enterprises POB. 110675 Brooklyn, NY. 11211 (718) 599-2458
========================
Consultant, B.Sc. - Environmental & Life Sciences, MA. - Environmental
Policy Studies and Analysis - SUNYESC, 1992-97
Diplomas - New York University - Paralegal Studies, 1995 & Building
Construction Project Management, 1988.
Promoting local economic growth through the formation of cooperative
businesses, revolving around food waste composting, local/regional high
value agriculture, and cooperative marketing.
Waste-to-fertilizer-to-food-to jobs.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:14:48 GMT
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Peter Hutton
Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers
Subject: Radar Tracking of Bees, Riley
CHRS: IBMPC 2
CODEPAGE: 437
MSGID: 240:244/116 2a2c859b
REPLY: 240:44/0 19a4998f
PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(201)
BL> Hi:
BL> The name is Joe Riley in England. Just got an e-mail. This
BL> system is not commercially available nor affordable for most
BL> individuals.
BL> The Canadian's have had some success with hand-held radar
BL> guns used to find people trapped in an avalanch. Still
BL> pricey at @$7000 for a full system.
BL> Cheap if you are the one buried under the snow. Not so
BL> cheap for tracking
BL> bees.
BL> Jerry
BL> Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D.
BL> Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in
BL> Energy The University of Montana-Missoula
BL> Missoula, MT 59812-1002
BL> E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu
BL> Tel: 406-243-5648
BL> Fax: 406-243-4184
Hallo Jerry,
I don't follow the thread of this mail, but I have attended two very good
lectures last year and the year before on Radar Tracking of Bumble and
honeybees.
Scientists at IHR Rothampstead in England have been conducting research on
pollination by particularly bumble bees, In order to track the bees the
researchers have attached a diode to the bee's thorax, this acts as an atennae
which receives a signal from a radar dish of given size transmitting at a given
n cycles/second, the signal bounces off the antennae and is received back by a
smaller dish at half the transmission cycles, the returned signal is plotted by
computer to give a position up to a maximum of one kilometer, the plot then
shows where the bee has travelled. The system has been modified to use only one
dish to transmit and receive back the signals. The work continues this year and
the results will be published. Dr,. Julia Osborne is the researcher in this
program. There is an Email address. The web url for IHR Rothampstead is
http://www.res.bbsrc.ac.uk/entnem this is the Varroa hub with many links and
the Email address you will need to contact Dr. Osborne.
From the Garden of England
best wishes Peter Hutton
---
* Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:56:50 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Partin
Subject: AFB
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
IF I USE RESISTANT QUEENS AND THEY ROB AN INFECTED HIVE OUT
THEY SHOULD COME DOWN WITH A LITTLE AFB . THEY ALSO SHOULD CLEEN IT UP
VERY QUICKLY. IT IS VERRY LIKELY I WOULD NOT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT IT.
WOULD I NOT HAVE SPOORS IN MY EQUIPMENT AFTER THIS. SHOULD I NOT ASSUME
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS THINKING. IF
THERE IS PLEASE TELL ME. I'M SURE THERE IS.
BUD
500-1000 HIVES
FLORIDA
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:09:40 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "A.S.CHESNICK"
Subject: use for skeeps
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Use em for temporary swarm storage or make an observation hive out of
them. Just cut the skips in half and glue a piece of glassier clear
plastic(DO NOT USE PLASTIC WRAP!!!use plexy glass or somthing)maybe make
a small glass window on the other side for lighting. the only problem
the skeeps have to be pretty big
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:00:21 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Aaron Morris
Subject: Ohio State Offers Queen Classes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY SHORT COURSES
The Art Of Queen Rearing
May 21 and 22, 1998
The art of queen rearing is one of the most pleasurable and
rewarding aspects of beekeeping. This class is designed to give the
beekeeper an understanding and appreciation of what it takes to rear high
quality queens, as a hobby or on a commercial scale.
The two day queen rearing short course is offered Thursday and
Friday May 21 and 22 at the Ohio State University Rothenbuhler Honey Bee
Research Laboratory in Columbus, Ohio.
The basic biology and principals of queen rearing will be
presented. Beekeepers will be involved in going through the various steps
of the process, including using breeder boxes, setting up cell builders,
grafting, handling queen cells and establishing mating nucs. Tips on drone
rearing and mating queens will also be presented. The class will consist of
a combination of classroom and hands on beekeeping. Two basic queen rearing
systems will be used, a queen right system and a queen less system.
We will make some of the specialized equipment needed - grafting
tool, cell bars and holding frames - of which participants can take home
and get started right away in their own apiaries. Queen cells will also be
available. Please bring a hot water bottle in an insulated carry box.
Prerequisite:
Knowledge of basic beekeeping is required. Bring your bee veil.
Registration:
Registration is $100, this includes queen rearing supplies.
Information on lodging will be included in the registration packet.
Deadline for registration is May 1st.
For more information contact : Susan Cobey
Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210.
Tel (614) 292-7928, Fax (614) 292- 5237, E-Mail cobey.1@osu.edu
INSTRUMENTAL INSEMINATION
AND HONEY BEE BREEDING SHORT COURSE
June 17, 18, and 19th , 1998
An intensive three day course on the technique of instrumental
insemination and bee breeding is offered at the Ohio State University
Rothenbuhler Honey Bee Research Laboratory in Columbus, Ohio every summer.
The three day course is scheduled Wednesday through Friday. The class is
designed for commercial beekeepers who are involved in a breeding program
or who want to improve upon an existing program. It is also designed for
laboratory personnel requiring the skill for research purposes.
A practical hands-on approach to instruction is provided with
emphasis on individual attention. Participants become familiar with the
assembly and alignment of equipment and sterilization methods. Various
types of insemination instruments are available for comparison and review
of their features. The preparation and care of virgin queens and drones,
post-insemination care and introduction of inseminated queens will be
discussed in detail. Basic bee genetics and various breeding systems will
be presented. Demonstration materials, virgin queens and drones will be
provided. Participants receive a booklet of reprints reviewing methods of
bee breeding and the technique of instrumental insemination.
Instructor: Susan Cobey
Classes are taught principally by Susan Cobey, who has extensive experience
in commercial queen production, establishing and maintaining a bee breeding
program and has published numerous articles in the beekeeping literature on
related topics.
Prerequisite:
Knowledge of queen rearing experience is required. Beekeepers must
provide their own insemination equipment. Microscopes and lights will be
provided for use.
Registration:
Registration is $300. Lodging, meals and transportation are not
included in the registration fee. Information on lodging will be included
in the registration packet. Enrollment is limited and will be based upon
beekeeping experience. Deadline for registration is May 15th.
For more information contact : Susan Cobey
Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210.
Tel (614) 292-7928, Fax (614) 292- 5237, E-Mail cobey.1@osu.edu
Susan Cobey
The Ohio State University
Department of Entomology
B&Z Building Room 103
1735 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210
Ph. (614) 292-7928
FAX (614) 292-5237
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:06:24 -0600
Reply-To: allend@internode.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Allen Dick
Subject: Re: Is there a BEE-L FAQ ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980209064912.0ddf49be@mail.interport.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Is there a Bee-L Frequently Asked Questions ( FAQ ) ?
---
FAQs? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can
search for answers to most common questions by visiting
http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm
or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say
Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S)
('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:30:40 GMT
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Peter Hutton
Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers
Subject: irradiation of hives
CHRS: IBMPC 2
CODEPAGE: 437
MSGID: 240:244/116 2a32e806
REPLY: 240:44/0 e845c901
PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(202)
BL> Received: from Nora.PCUG.CO.UK by helen.pcug.co.uk id
BL> aa10616;
BL> 6 Feb 98 15:06 GMT
BL> Received: from uacsc2.albany.edu [169.226.1.21]
BL> by nora.pcug.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.71 #9)
BL> id 0y0pKi-0005ku-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:04:49 +0000
BL> Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM
BL> SMTP V2R4)
BL> with BSMTP id 2334; Fri, 06 Feb 98 10:01:46 EST
BL> Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin
BL> LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c)
BL> with BSMTP id 7252; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:59:18 -0500 Received:
BL> from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP
BL> release
BL> 1.8c) with spool id 4474 for
BL> BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU; Fri, 6 Feb 1998
BL> 09:59:09 -0500
BL> Received: from ALBNYVM1 (NJE origin SMTPIN1@ALBNYVM1) by
BL> CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
BL> (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7244; Fri, 6 Feb
BL> 1998 09:59:08 -0500
BL> Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (170.76.16.10) by
BL> CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM
BL> SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Fri, 06 Feb 98 09:59:07 EST
BL> Received: from default (ppp18-ver.acnet.net [167.114.24.216])
BL> by
BL> mailmtx.acnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA06888 for
BL> From: Teresa Garcma
BL> Subject: irradiation of hives
BL> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
BL> Robert,
BL> Could you please explain a little bit more about this
BL> irradiation technique? With what do you irradiate? Is it not
BL> dangerous for the person who does it? Is it done "All over"
BL> Australia"? and please, just out of curiosity, what part of
BL> Australia are you from?
Hallo,
just to say irradiation with Cobalt 60 was available in Britain for beehives
and was said to be 100% effective. Beekeepers here were rather too tight
fisted to pay the relatively high price asked by the Irradiators. The
irradiators
found better pickings at the supermarket suppliers by irradiating fresh
vegetables
instead. This was ten or fifteen years ago, we never hear of it now or see any
advertising. I guess it still is available but irradiation is a touchy subject.
Not good
for the supermarket image.
from the Garden of England
peter hutton
---
* Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:23:52 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Garry Libby
Subject: Re: Early Pollen - Baltimore Metro ARea
John Ianuzzi wrote:
"Am still feeding my bees. Started 1nov and won't
quit until the honeyflow, May 1"
Hello John,
What are You feeding the bees?And how?
Thanks,
Garry Libby
Boston,USA
LibBEE@msn.com
if con is the opposite of pro,
is congress the opposite of progress?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:18:37 -0500
Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject: Re: Is there a BEE-L FAQ ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Curtis. Good morning. You are probably going to get several hundred
answer in your electronic mail box! But just in case that the "wise guys"
think that it is "dumb" not to know what AFB, I am answering your question.
AFB stands for American Foul Brood disease. A bacterium that reproduces
forming spores and very capable of destroying an apiary in short order.
With good sanitary practices, people don't have to worry about AFB. But,
as a rule, beekeepers tend to be sloppy, and pay the consequences. The
mite infestation is a good example of that!
Have a wonderful day, my friend.
Pedro
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:41:02 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Joel Govostes
Subject: Re: About AFB resistance
In-Reply-To: <34DE4231.1F34@acnet.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This standard sort of procedure will indicate which colonies are most
hygenic, in how quickly or completely they remove *dead brood*,
specifically, freeze-killed brood. It is dead brood, but not AFB-killed
brood. There are other factors with AFB-killed brood, such as the
consistency of the brood (stage of decomposition) and the remaining scales
which contaminate the cells.
Ideally, AFB brood would be introduced and the colonies monitored as to the
amount of cleaning up they do. Whether they succumb to AFB after that is
another question. Some colonies can be given rancid AFB brood-combs, clean
them up, and use them without immediate disease manifestation. According
to Roger Morse, this shows that stress is another crucial factor in whether
or not a colony "gets" AFB.
>I just want to pass on an idea given by Susan Cobey, to test resistance
>of bees to AFB. As you might know, the original test involved cutting a
>square of comb with capped brood, then put it in the freezer and then
>return it to the hole left in the original comb. If the bees cleaned all
>the dead brood, they were "resistant" to AFB, if not, they would be
>highly susceptible.
>The modification consists of pinning the square of brood, so to kill the
>larvae, but without the neccessity to remove and put back the comb.
>This way, she can select for resistant bees to AFB.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:29:39 GMT+0200
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Garth
Organization: Rhodes University South Africa
Subject: Re: how clean is the interiorof a hive
Hi All
Recently I plated swabs from the inside of a hive testing for certain
organisms that I am interested in and did not find them.
I did however find that there are a reasonable number of organisms
living in different hives, including E.coli on broodsurfaces(I gather
maybe from human contactinfecting them), and certain filamentous
yeasts. (Candida's)
The level of contamination would be about the same I would estimate
as a hand which has been recently washed with a non-disinfectant
soap.
I will do this again and post the results on the list. Last time I
only recorded that the organisms I was looking for were not present.
Keep well
Garth
PS on the topic of scorching frames to kill spores, many sporesof
micro organisms are extremely stable due to inclusion of special
substances into their structure which protect agains both heat and
irradiation by certain high energy wavelengths and particles. Without
knowledge of theseit would be very difficulttoestimate
whatpercentage of sporeswouldbe inactivated at a certain temperature.
---
Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries
15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis
Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation
6139
Eastern Cape
South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663
On holiday for a few months Rhodes University
Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day!
Interests: Fliis and bees
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way
reflect those of Rhodes University.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:10:38 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Rod Hewitt
Subject: Re: trach
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I used it last year on my three hives fed in sugar water solution and grease
patties
in the fall. My bees are doing fine at this point.
RDH
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:19:37 +0100
Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth"
Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dear Mr. Imirie,
I hardly could believe what I read. There are some beekeepers in USA
that practise beekeeping in such a reasonable way (in my mind). Surely
it is easier to grab some drugs out of the medicine cabinet to treat the
bees. But I personally and more and more consumers of bee products don't
want that kind of beekeeping.
Your way of beekeeping works and it does also in other parts of the
world. Here in Germany we use quite similar methods of handling AFB. By
the way a little difference: we sometimes make artifical swarms with
clean chambers and wax foundations, if one has a only a few hives with
beginning AFB or a hive of excellent breed. But this is rearly an
exception mostly the hives are burned just as you do. Perhaps it is more
than pure coincidence - we predominantly have Carniolan bees, too.
Sincerely
Reimund
Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria)
Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees
Insemination Station
> Now in my 65th year with bees, I recall the days of using boiling lye
> solutions, scorching hive bodies and bottom boards with gasoline blow torches
> and using sulfur drugs to HOPEFULLY clean up AFB spores.
> Have you ever seen a person burned by lye, burned by a gasoline blow torch, or
> burned by HOT wax? I have! Best that you "play politics" and get your state
> to fund an ethylene oxide fumigation chamber like Maryland and North Carolina.
> Although many beekeepers use Terramycin for AFB, unfortunately, many
> beekeepers think that treatment with TM or Extender Patties KILLS American
> Foul Brood spores. IT DOES NOT! It only controls AFB, just like shots of
> insulin controls diabetes, but does not kill or cure diabetes.
> In my 65 years, always having 20-100+ colonies (a scientific hobby only), I
> have never used any Terramycin, because I do not want the presence of AFB
> sores HIDDEN. If hidden, not knowing I have AFB in my apiary, It can be
> quickly spread to every colony and my other apiaries by contaminated tools,
> hive parts, and HONEY.
> TOTAL BURNING of bees, hives, frames, wax, brood, pollen, EVERYTHING is the
> BEST solution and CHEAPEST in the lung run unless you have access to ethylene
> oxide fumigation or gamma ray irradiation.
> Since my bees are in the early crop area of Maryland & Virginia, I have had
> Carniolans for almost 50 years.
> Wishing a great 1998 to you and your bees, I am George Imirie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:31:24 +0000
Reply-To: luichart.woollens@virgin.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Harry Goudie
Organization: Luichart Woollens
Subject: Re: Organic honey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Bill Bartlett wrote:
> Very few products
> for human consumption have such few regulations. Ask farmers, who happen
> to have bees how much they are regulated.
Here in Britain, it would appear, that we now have exactly the same
regulations as farmers and I would expect that other countries will
follow suit.
>
> Until we can stop using chemicals in the hive and we can tell our bees
> where to go and what bring home, we can not and should not be clamoring for
> "Organic Honey".
If you have the will to do so then you can keep bees at the present time
without the use of chemicals especially if you are a "Hobby" beekeeper.
Perhaps not if you are a "Bee Farmer". We can't control where the bees
go or what they bring back but we can control what we give to them.
Perhaps this is not "Organic Honey" but it is a start in that direction.
I think that many commercial beekeepers would love to call their honey
"Organic" if they could get away with it.
--
Harry
Scotland
Knitwear Web pages:
http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/
Beekeeping Page:
http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/page8.html
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:49:06 -0800
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Andy Nachbaur by way of Andy Nachbaur
"
Subject: (fwd) Sue Bee Jan. Member Letter
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:33:43 GMT, in sci.agriculture.beekeeping
andy.nachbaur@calwest.net (Andy Nachbaur) wrote:
1998 Honey Crop Initital Advance Authorized
Jan. 27, 1998
In a letter to members the Sioux Honey Association Board of Directors
pass on this information for members that my give non members some
idea of the value of honey at least to the 400+ producers who are
members of the largest honey packing cooperative in the US.
The initital advance on the 1998 crop will be $0.35 US for both Sue
Bee Bottlegrade and Aunt Sue Bottlegrade honey pools. The pool #3 and
Special Pool will receive $0.30 US, and the Pool #4 $0.15 US. Beeswax
will bring a $1.00 initital advace. (all US coin & US weights in
pounds)
Sue Bee members also receive a $0.07 US per pound March 1 advance on
all 1997 crop honey bringing the advances to $0.55 US for Sue Bee &
Aunt Sue grades, and $0.50 US for Pool 3 and Special Pool honey. Pool
#4 has returned $0.35 US and Beeswax returns so far have been $1.50
US.
Members delivered 36,400,000 US pounds of honey from their 1997 crop
and estamated sales to the June 30, 1998 end of fiscal year are
46,000,000 US pounds up from the 42,680,000 US pounds 1996 crop sales.
The increase in sales is said to be in the lower value industural bulk
markets.
ttul, the OLd Drone
* A cynic smells the flowers and looks for the casket.
(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!
(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:23:46 +0000
Reply-To: jlhamil@atcon.com
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Jack/Lorraine Hamilton
Subject: Nova Scotia's Annual Convention notice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Good Evening Bee-L
Please forward this submission as soon as possible to any groups appropriate:
The Nova Scotia Beekeepers Association is having their Annual convention in
The Kentville Research Center on Feb. 20, 21 1998.
Featured guest speaker will be Lawrence Cutts Florida State Apiarist.
There will also be a presentation by Lawrence at the Bedford Legion
#1772 Bedford Hwy. at 7:30 pm on Thursday Feb. 19. Everyone please
attend and hear the latest news on honeybee mite controls and more.
For more information contact Jack Hamilton at jlhamil@atcon.com
Jack Hamilton
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:39:46 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: George W Imirie
Subject: Re: use for skeeps
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Skeps are illegal in Maryland, because a bee inspector cannot remove the combs
for inspection - particularly AFB. I think most states do not allow the use
of skeps.
In 1922, 1 out of every three colonies in Maryland had AFB. Maryland started
its mandatory inspection program then, and for many, many years our AFB
incidence averages about Half of One Percent. Thank the Lord.
Let us keep it that level or lower!
George Imirie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:01:09 +0200
Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Marian Pintilie
Organization: -
Subject: Re: how clean is the interiorof a hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Garth
Thank you very much for this information. Is good to have scientific
prove of your supposition.
> I did however find that there are a reasonable number of organisms
> living in different hives, including E.coli on broodsurfaces(I gather
> maybe from human contactinfecting them), and certain filamentous
> yeasts. (Candida's)
>
> The level of contamination would be about the same I would estimate
> as a hand which has been recently washed with a non-disinfectant
> soap.
It will be interesting if you could done the same tests for different
type of propolization, especialy for non propolised hives.
Costel
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:08:41 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Nick The Beeman
Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Question: Can anyone explain this?
WE split a hive (very whell almost to nothing in brood) yet it still swarmed
about 1 1/2 months later
Thank you Nick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:21:50 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Al Needham
Subject: Re: Correction of url on Ye Olde Honey Bee Book Shoppe
Hi:
A BEE-L subscriber just pointed out to me that
I ' mistyped " the url on the Book Shoppe. I
transposed two letters.
Correct URL is:
http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/books.html
Al,
--------
<"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" >
Scituate,Massachusetts,USA
The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site
Visit Ye Olde Honey Bee Book Shoppe
http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:36:23 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: John Iannuzzi
Subject: Re: Early Pollen - Baltimore Metro ARea
In-Reply-To: <01b521944020928UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sugar syrup, half water/half sugar by volume
in half gallon boardman feeders so that I can see
when the glass containers are MT.
My sugar is "sweepings" purchased at 10c/lb.
On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Garry Libby wrote:
> John Ianuzzi wrote:
> "Am still feeding my bees. Started 1nov and won't
> quit until the honeyflow, May 1"
>
> Hello John,
>
> What are You feeding the bees?And how?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Garry Libby
> Boston,USA
> LibBEE@msn.com
> if con is the opposite of pro,
> is congress the opposite of progress?
>
**John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.
**38 years in apiculture
**12 hives of Italian honeybees
**At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of
Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279]
**"Forsooth there is some good in things evil
For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon
**Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey
**Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:54:05 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: David Green
Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-02-09 19:11:15 EST, BeemanNick@AOL.COM (Nick The
Beeman) writes:
<
WE split a hive (very whell almost to nothing in brood) yet it still swarmed
about 1 1/2 months later >>
Two year old queens are programed to swarm. Often you can delay that by
removing brood or bees to make a nuc, or jack up weak hives...... But they
often will eventually swarm anyway. I had a few old queens last spring that
were knocked back to nearly nothing, came back like gangbusters, and
eventually a high percentage of them swarmed at midsummer.
Younger queens are unlikely to swarm, unless they are very crowded. I've
seen three or four week old queens swarm from nucs, when they were delayed in
getting into ten frame boxes.
One summer I had a hive next to my honey house that kept getting added
bees from the supers that were brought in (there shouldn't have been too many,
because there was always a nuc next to the window bee escape, but some would
drift off the truck when I pulled the net). They swarmed three times during
the summer, much to my amazement. The first queen was a Buckfast of that year,
and each one after was one they raised. In the fall they appeared to have
superseded, but the new queen was a dingaling, and I had to combine them with
another hive.
Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA
The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:54:08 EST
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: David Green
Subject: Finally a nice day in the South! (SCarolina Report)
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I'm getting real tired of El Nino's dastardly deeds, and hope that today's
sunshine was a taste of a lot more to come. It has been gray and overcast on
most of the few days it hasn't been raining. Shades of a Great Lakes winter!
-- Except for the warmth. Our lungs have been full of creeping crud, just
like they used to do during the "Great Gray Funk" of winter in the lee of Lake
Ontario. Maybe the sun will clean them out.
I won't be laughing at the pale, coughing, sickly folks who come to Myrtle
Beach from "upNawth", for Easter vacation this year. Maybe I'll go join them
for a change.
We've had just about our annual rainfall since Christmas, so everyone is
expecting drought this summer. Go figure!
Today was gorgeous. Maples have been in bloom for two weeks, but today was
the first day for the bees to get onto it, and they were hauling in maple
pollen this afternoon. Daffodils were bright and beautiful in the sunshine.
Our neighborhood pear and apple trees are in blossom; we can forget any fruit
crop around here this year. We've got the best wild mustard bloom I've seen
in many years, due to the inability of the famers to cut the fields. Mustard
yields little nectar, but very rich pollen......if only the bees will get a
chance to work it.
I fed one yard, and it was nice to find them in good shape. Some of the
bees I moved in the drizzle Saturday were pretty poor and greasy looking.
They'll get feed and a closer look tomorrow.
This yard was inaccessible, as there was a gully big enough to break an
axle right across the roadway to the bee yard, a momento of our 5.7 inches of
rain last week. I had to walk in for the last couple hundred feet, carrying
some pails of syrup.
There was a little water still running over the paved road going to the bee
yard, but the sand in the road showed that it been much higher.
Most of the hives had eaten all the last feeding and were anxiously
awaiting more. A couple bees told me they were mad that I let them run out of
feed. But all were smiling when I left.
I always come home high, when the bees look good. -Even if the weather has
been lousy.
Some of the hives were clustering in the feeder rims, so it's about time
to start adding second boxes for more brood. When you see a huge cluster with
nice clean looking, sweet smelling bees, you got a mama cow, pregnant with
twins or triplets.
The goundhog said six more weeks ..... which is about right for the first
real flow...... Just gotta' make sure they don't run out of chow until
then..... Warm, but overcast weather has kept them active, rearing brood, and
eating up their reserves.
Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA
The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:51:45 +0100
Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Barry Birkey
Organization: BIRKEY.COM
Subject: Re: Finally a nice day in the South! (SCarolina Report)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David Green wrote:
> Today was gorgeous. Maples have been in bloom for two weeks, but today was
> the first day for the bees to get onto it, and they were hauling in maple
> pollen this afternoon. Daffodils were bright and beautiful in the sunshine.
> Our neighborhood pear and apple trees are in blossom; we can forget any fruit
> crop around here this year. We've got the best wild mustard bloom I've seen
> in many years, due to the inability of the famers to cut the fields. Mustard
> yields little nectar, but very rich pollen......if only the bees will get a
> chance to work it.
Dave -
I know it's time to start getting my equipment ready when you start
talking like this! It's nice to know the Spring thing is happening
somewhere even if it is premature. Hope you can keep up when it breaks
loose.
-Barry
--
Barry Birkey
West Chicago, Illinois USA
Barry@Birkey.com
http://www.birkey.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:48:32 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Alden P. Marshall"
Subject: Re: Bee Diets
Hi Nutrition Enthusiasts,
I've been spending a little time surfing the WEB for yeast
cultures that might be suitable to mix with the expeller soy flour and
pollen I have. Here are a couple that sounded pretty good to me
1. A product of JEFO called "Diamond V". protein 15%, fat
4.0%,fibre 5.5%, ash 4.0%,moisture 11.0%, lactic acid 0.9%.
2. A product of Western Yeast Culture "2X-2-2-5" I do not have
the ingredient breakdown on this product yet but intend to have it soon.
I talked to a gentleman representing prod.#2 and he indicated
there was a beekeeper in Montana who purchased a lot of the product. They
do claim that these products are more expensive than brewers yeast
because of the active culture. This of course is claimed to further
assist in the assimilation of feed nutrients. I plan to try Item #2
primarily because of convenience, the area distributors is rather close.
It's about $20 for a 50# bag, that doesn't seem to expensive to me.
Anybody out there familiar with either of these products?
Alden Marshall
B-Line Apiaries
Hudson, NH 03051
Busybee9@Juno.com
tel. 603-883-6764
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:33:41 -0500
Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez"
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely
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Hi Nick.
Sometimes we wait until it is already too late. If they have developed
"swarm fever" when we get to them, then it is already late and they will surely
split, go vamoose, swarm.
I know that perhaps I may not be making much sense, but it just seems to me that
way.
Good luck with the next.
Dr. R.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:54:18 -0600
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Teresa Garcma
Subject: Re: AFB
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John Partin,
I don=B4t have probems with EFB or AFB, but I was told long ago, that if=20
you suspect there=B4s a disease in the surroundings, you should "burn"=20
your hivetool in the smoker for a few seconds between hives.=20
Tere
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:05:03 -0600
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Teresa Garcma
Subject: Re: About AFB resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I started reading the mail from the bottom up, for a change, so, please,
Reimund, excuse me if I repeat this to Joel.
Dr. Rothenbuhler made research about the relationship between the
cleaning behaviour and resistance to AFB. His work was published in
English in 1958, 1964, 1967 and 1975. A digest of this accomplishment in
genetic improvement appears in the book edited by Dr. Tom Rinderer: "Bee
Genetics and Breeding" (1986)in chapters 6 and 16. It contains
references.
I just wanted to pass on a very simple (I think) procedure to test the
cleaning behaviour, that was given to me. Prevention is better than
treatment and cheaper too.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:25:50 +0000
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Murray McGregor
Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites
In-Reply-To: <199802071443.OAA18965@mail.iol.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199802071443.OAA18965@mail.iol.ie>, Computer Software
Solutions Ltd writes
>
>It seems to me, that with the emergence of resistant mites, that DR
>Rodriguez case for using non chemical treatments has been largely vindicated
>and possibly fully proved. It also seems to me, that there are two kinds of
>beekeepers. One is the older variety in terms of years spent with bees. I am
>of the opinion that these beekeepers are not too open to new ideas. The
>other variety, like myself, is the newer beekeeper, who is more open to new
>ideas, since every idea to us is a new idea. Like all activities carried out
>in this technological age, beekeeping is better for a technological approach
>which is environmentally benign. I have plans to put Dr Rodriguez system
>into operation as soon as I can.
Dear Tom,
As with another posting on this, I regret that I cannot agree with this
assertion. To suggest that the older beekeepers active on this list are
not receptive to new ideas must be wrong. There is however a pragmatic
and realistic appraisal, sometimes brutally so, of 'new' ideas. What may
appear to be new to the newcomer is often an old idea in new clothes,
and older heads spot this right away, and quickly and sensibly discard
what is of no use to them, but home in very quickly on anything good.
There is probably very little that highly experienced people, like Andy
for example, will not have seen, or done, or heard of being done, and
thus can spot and discard a 'lemon' with an ease which can seem like
blank dismissal to the less experienced.
There is also nothing remarkable about knowing that mite resistance to
fluvalinate would emerge. The nature of all synthetic pyrethroids is
such that immune populations do not take long to build up, and thus the
clock is ticking for them from their first use. Their useful life can be
safeguarded by two principal methods. Firstly, they should only be used
as directed, because innaccurate dosing is very helpful to resistance
development. Secondly, by using alternating treatment methods, which
should nip the resistant mites with something else at the next round of
treatment. If you have more than one proven treatment available to you
you should use both the accurate dosages and the alternating treatments
in your varroa strategy.
>I have plans to put Dr Rodriguez system
>into operation as soon as I can.
Hopefully you will not have to for a good while yet, as, to the best of
my knowledge, Ireland is still varroa free. I know it is supposed to
deal with tracheal mites as well but you should check if you have a
genuine problem with them before proceeding with a treatment regime,
especially one which, although very interesting and promising, still
must be viewed as in its embryonic stages.
Aside from this issue for the moment, I read with great interest the
various postings about the Texas vs. John Caldiera case. I noted
however, that no-one seemed to be looking at the issue behind it all:
the use of MAVRIK. Whilst the tactics used by the authorities were, from
all reports, ridiculous and draconian, it is probably important to
discover why they wanted to take this action. We over here have not
heard enough about the case to reach a balanced conclusion.
There will probably be some who will jump in here and say it was just to
protect vested interests, but it could just be that they were aware of
the situation which had built up in Europe through the use of
innaccurate fluvalinate dosing using home made MAVRIK treatments. It is
strongly implicated in resistance development where undertreatment has
occurred and high residue levels in wax where overdosed. It is certainly
cheap, but you could be borrowing from your future to save a bit now, as
it will possibly shorten the useful life of fluvalinate as a varroa
control measure. It will be interesting over the coming seasons to see
where the genuinely resistant mites first appear in North America and
see if it is a high MAVRIK use area. Of course, you live in a free
country over there and education, not litigation, should have been the
approach.
--
Murray McGregor
murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:27:54 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz"
Subject: Re: AFB
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:54 AM 2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>John Partin,
>
>I don=B4t have probems with EFB or AFB, but I was told long ago, that if=20
>you suspect there=B4s a disease in the surroundings, you should "burn"=20
>your hivetool in the smoker for a few seconds between hives.=20
>
>Tere
>
>If you feel burning your hive tool will help than burn it. Beekeeping is
all about doing something you like. If you want to do everything that people
tell you about beekeeping and carry everything out that you hear or read
then you may not have much time to do anything else.=20
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:06:32 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology
From: Garry Libby
Subject: Re: irradiation of hives
Hello All,
Do the hive bodies have to be empty of wax before being
irradiated?The Worcester County(MA)Beekeepers are irradiating next month,and
I was considering having some hives that were given to Me done, just to be
absolutely sure.
Thanks,
Garry Libby
Boston,USA
LibBEE@msn.com
if con is the opposite of pro,
is congress the opposite of progress?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:23:13 -0800
Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net
Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology